[00:00:00]

We we kind of just need to not care and if I could give myself one piece of advice It would be care a lot less,

 So today on Dear Queer, we’re talking about things that we would tell our younger selves.

 I guess this is something that maybe has been on my mind more recently. It’s something that I think comes to you more as you get a little older, too, right? Because there’s more to look back on. And when we’re younger, we’re looking ahead and we don’t know what’s there. And now once you hit, you know, your thirties and now I’ve hit my forties too.

You start to turn backwards in a way that you hadn’t before because you just didn’t have any perspective. And so I thought it might be fun to, to see, all of our different takes on that. What are some things that we would tell our younger selves? Like, what are some, you know, wisdom, words of wisdom we might give to help?

to help our younger self or, and, and hopefully that will help some other younger people out there that might be listening or older people too because it can, it can hit you at any age, these different lessons, right? Uh, whether it’s like avoiding mistakes or finding themselves sooner or questions to ask themselves that we really benefited from.

 So that’s what I had in mind for today and we have Nick joining us again. Thank you

for

for being here. Absolutely. So stoked. Thank you for having me back.

a dear queer regular. I’m so

lame.

I’ve been talking about

Household

of time,

[00:02:00] so I’m curious

regular. I

think, too, what

you were saying about,

some things that neither of us, like, have considered as well. You wish to be older.

You keep thinking you are. I mean part of that is true, you’re kind of drinking from the fire hose when you’re a teenager and stuff is changing all the time and you’re learning new things, but looking back I

see teenagers now and

I’m like, oh my gosh, the stuff

I didn’t

know.

I think we

we get humbled over the years like we get slowly

Yes, that’s

increasingly taught how little we know.

Although, I mean, I will say, , um, watching the

students now

Oh Yeah.

humbling and like, yeah, seeing what

they’re doing on college

campuses in the States and Canada, and,

yeah, it’s emotional,

It is. No, it’s, and it’s inspiring. And I, I was particularly

moved by a video that I saw recently of students in the states who were like these, this is a generation that has grown up being terrified to go to

Yeah, exactly.

been growing up doing active

shooter drills and learning these techniques to, to help them keep themselves safe because the government

Mm hmm.

And now they’re using those tactics to keep themselves separate from the police and to not allow the police to get into some of these camp camps they’ve set up, which is like the most, I just got chills, the most like brilliant twist to be like, listen, it’s kind of like, we, we have had [00:04:00] to learn how to do this against our will.

Basically we had to,

And like, it’s, it’s, it’s like a poetic kind of F you in a way to, to be like,

we’re taking a stand now and these are one of our tactics we’re

using.

Yeah, it’s the we keep us

safe. Yeah.

Yeah. We’ve had to

to. We’ve had to this whole time because. the generation above us has dropped the ball, lost the plot, and all of those things. And it’s, yeah, it’s cool. It’s, you know, we’re talking about what we would tell our younger selves, but I’m still learning

from the younger

generation on how to show up in this movement.

And

yeah, I think it’s really

Well, it’s also a generation that has been so like, so dismissed by older generations to like calling snowflakes and this and that and soft and know what they don’t want to work so much and all this stuff.

But like, no, they’re just learning lessons earlier that maybe you have come to realize, Oh, work life balance matters. Oh, capitalism isn’t all it’s cut out to be like they’ve grown up. I think

also think us as millennials, we were kinda like the last generation to be fooled.

Mm-Hmm. Like that they wanted to keep it going and we were the last ones, the first to start questioning it, but we

didn’t, we did some about something about it. Um, but I think also just when the internet blew up, when we were that age and a little younger even, and then we didn’t. connect as well. And I think everyone feels

very, very connected to each other.

Whereas

each

I

I think

one thing I would tell my younger self is to,

to

be less ignorant and to care more. Um, because I definitely did trust the quote unquote system to just, yep, I am this person. I am a shining boy. The world will take care of me as long as I do everything right. And I, I definitely did think that because I had all the adults around me.

Reinforcing

reinforcing

that that is how the world works. And I think we were the generation, especially like on social media, being like, Oh yeah, you’re a millennial if, or you’re a millennial, and just kind of talking about our struggles and our frustrations with what we didn’t know. And they’re not [00:06:00] going to not learn from that.

They’re, they’re, they’re wise to it. And they believe us because we are a lot of their bosses now as

Yeah, that was one of my points was actually my first point when I was taking some notes yesterday was question everything right?

Because I grew up in a very kind of conservative home, religious household and school and everything. And actually there’s, a lack of critical thinking that comes with, of religious indoctrination. Because it’s so much like, this is how you should be, this is what the truth is, and this is, you know, and your family reinforces that, and your peers do, and, uh, and so I really have to applaud the younger generation now who’s, who is questioning everything.

Yeah.

There’s a false sense of safety in not questioning, and just going with it, because the masses

are. So that’s what I think well I did. Or we, maybe millennials did, but now the younger generation isn’t. And if I could go back and do it again, or inform my younger self, I would make sure that I’m

I would

more attention,

Yeah.

this

generation of students has grown up with technology and, you know, you can turn on your phone and see what’s going on in the world, in Palestine, in all of these places, and it’s like, no, you can’t tell us this isn’t happening. You can’t tell us that, you know, the system

isn’t rigged or

corrupt

Yeah, there’s a benefit in that kind of

exposure, which I mean, I didn’t have the internet until I was in university and had to go to a computer lab to use it.

So it was like, I wasn’t exposed early on to differing ideas. So there’s one definite blessing of of this early exposure is we have these, these kids and these teens and these young adults who are really brave.

It’s so beautiful. Yeah. I think we were fumbling around. I remember people passing around like L

word DVDs. You know, we, we

Yeah. were like, yeah, low tech. I’m like, Ooh, queer people exist. Wow. I thought it was just me.

Uh, well, actually that’s a really good, I love that you started there, Lauren, because, um, it’s one thing, [00:08:00] like, we’re not, we don’t want to come from a position where we’re like, we have figured it all out. We know everything. And it’s not just about. Assuming that

younger people don’t know a lot of stuff.

So I

appreciate that.

that. It’s,

it’s, what is it, bi directional, or it’s like, you know, the flow of information goes up and down, we can, we can all learn from each other, and I think that’s the, the beautiful part about it.

What’s going on now and yeah, I think even in these really challenging times, we’re seeing a lot of beauty and things grow up or grow through the cracks. And yeah, I’m excited to see what comes next.

For me, it was definitely my experience as a queer person and doing everything I could to hide, repress, deny, dis, like, um, distract from that topic at all. It was a full time job I found in, as someone who’s very social and had a lot of friends growing up and just jumping from group to group and just trying to navigate, okay, who’s on to me?

Like, it was just, it’s exhausting. And I was actually speaking to my partner. Right last night going to bed about just some social issues and some um how we fit in in the world and with our friends and family and such and I was just like We we kind of just need to not care and if I could give myself one piece of advice It would be care a lot

less And something that just came out of my mind out of my mouth that I didn’t even see it coming was like What other people think of you is isn’t really your business.

Like it’s, it’s their business. And you can just go through and like, know that you are doing it right. You’re a good person. Keep doing what you, you believe in, and you’ll, you’ll naturally attract the ones who vibe with it. And the ones who aren’t on that frequency will naturally go like move on. And we don’t wish them ill, or we don’t not love them anymore.

Or someone could bring up their [00:10:00] name and we still celebrate them, but we just don’t spend our time with them. Maybe they don’t. They don’t share our values anymore and it’s, it’s okay. So I just basically like, that was the advice I was giving to him yesterday. And knowing that this podcast was happening in the morning, I was like, that’s what I would tell myself younger too.

I was trying so hard to fit in. I even said the words like,

like

pounding your chest to be noticed in a circle, in a social situation. I was like, that’s what I did for those first two weeks of university until Lauren met me. And I was like, Oh, is this really what university is going to be? This sounds

and, then I

and then I was just like, oh, and I just took a sigh of relief.

And then, and then the rest of it played out naturally. So. That

that’s, well, that was one of my points too. I wrote, don’t let other people tell you who you are or that idea of like, don’t be afraid to be yourself. And I mean, obviously when we’re young and in a family and that is our safety, that’s harder, that can be harder to do. And so, you know, that’s why. There is the hiding and the worrying and who’s on to you and this and that.

Um, but you’re absolutely right. It’s like that idea that. That fitting in versus belonging piece, where like fitting in is changing yourself to, you know, to fit in, to be amongst the people who you’re around, but to be authentic, versus belonging is that idea of just being your authentic self. Which might mean that you only belong to yourself in that moment and don’t actually be yourself.

vibe with anyone around you, but, but that’s fine. Like that kind of knowing in yourself. So it can be a lonely thing, but yeah, that was one of my points to this idea that, cause we grow up, we grew up being told who we

are

and it’s not even always.

Like it’s not, sometimes it is like, you know, sometimes it’s a parent saying you’re going to be such a good mom or you’re going to be this, or you should be at this when you’re older and sometimes it is that explicit, but it’s not always, it’s those like nonverbal things and the energies that, that people bring to that kind of tell you who you should be.

[00:12:00] And you know, that continues our first. 10, 20 years of our lives are people trying to kind of form us and that’s a powerful thing. And then it’s our responsibility after that, or if we can do it sooner, great, is to unpack that and then peel that back and say, okay, well, which parts of those were what they thought I should be and which parts of those are actually me.

And maybe those two things aren’t the same.

Some of them will align, but a lot of them won’t. Yeah. As I’ve learned . Yeah.

I think, too, it’s this interesting thing that happens where I think when we’re younger, like really young, um, I think there’s this where we are kind of more, we’re not really thinking about it. We’re more, so much more naturally ourselves.

Like when I look back at photos of me as like, you know, eight or ten and like basically before puberty, um, I look like a young boy. I look like my brothers. I’m wearing the baggy shorts and oversized shirts and like probably dressed closer to how I dress

Yeah,

And then there’s this thing that happens I think when we go through puberty where

we are suddenly

aware and we become Like we

see the

gaze now

peer, in peer pressure in high school,

and the

older

Some people are going through puberty and you’re like, oh, they’re changing I’m not there yet or vice or i’m changing and my friends aren’t there and that’s when I think we really become Hyper aware into what you said nick about looking, you know People don’t care.

It’s it really is us who who who care and we are so good At putting on the like lenses of what we think is expected whether or not You Like, it’s the story we tell ourselves, I think, is what I’m trying to get at. It’s interesting, so, um,

 So

my mom’s been listening to the podcast.

Shout

out. Hi, Heather. Um, and, [00:14:00] um, She was telling me about, , the books beside my bed, and apparently she had a friend come over and look at the books and was like, Oh, is your daughter gay? Just based on what I had on my

nightstand. I probably had like, Into the Wild, and like, you know,

whatever.

is this recent, or when you were

were younger.

When I lived at home, like when I was younger. Okay. But she told me this story

recently. Right. I’m learning all these things now about like the signs and things and it’s like, oh yeah, they knew all that stuff, but they weren’t saying anything to me about it.

They were letting me kind of come into my own and figure it out, but it was, it was more the stories I was telling and what, how I thought I had to perform and do all these things. So it was like this

internalized thing that

I thought I had to do,

but didn’t really.

But, but the land was laid for you to be like, this is, there was like a target that kind of people got you like you should kind of land in here somewhere.

And so we worry about the consequences about not landing in there because there are

consequences, right?

Yeah.

I think that’s why representation matters so much, because I think I would have been a lot more accepting of myself when I, those defense, those things that I was like trying to hide and deny and, and distract was because there was no other queer kid that I knew

of in the

school.

Yeah,

Like, I, Still looking, but I don’t think there was. I’m sure there have been developments since, but there wasn’t the, the other obviously gay kid. Like when I was in grade six, um, I still had my bowl cut and it was great. But I, I would have like little grade ones on the school year come up to me and say like, are you a boy or are you a girl?

And like say that to me.

had that all

the time.

know. And people, and like, cause little kids are so unapologetically

themselves and they just, We’re curious. And I was like, Oh, I gotta, like, I’m going to clock this. I got a butch opera. I got like, I don’t know what it

I got to butch

down.

yeah,

but the, uh, just, yeah. Like the things you learn and it’s these, these little things that happen, [00:16:00] that signal to you.

Okay. You’re you’re, you’re,

you’re dropping the ball on this

for me

You, you’re, you’re little seven year old self running

around in the baggy shirts, whatever needs to,

you know, be corrected. Change because you’re not fooling anyone and you are starting to care a

care. I think it was okay for me to be a tomboy when I was younger

And then it was less so like oh, I remember being so

stressed about

school

dancing, And

And any of those kind

of

more of like Boy girl

things and oh my gosh I wore a dress to my high school prom and like It was a nice dress and my mom was like super sweet about taking me shopping for it But like looking back I didn’t even think a suit was an option Like it wasn’t

even on

You As an option and I wish I did

wear a suit to prom

Or at least a power blazer or

Yeah, yeah. Big oversized one,

yeah.

Ellen DeGeneres style, you

is so funny because I went to a school that had uniforms and I wore a suit and tie every day

And like it wasn’t even on my radar that I could wear a suit to

prom.

Yeah So maybe i’d tell yeah, I

think i’d tell my younger. I don’t know

wear the suit.

suit. Wear the suit. I

don’t

that’s, and that’s what I celebrate so much now and

I, I’m, I don’t know if it’s because they’re being taught this in school or because they have more role models or cool aunts and uncles like us to be like, just be

but

all, the like 11 year old non binary kids.

Kids in school being themselves or like dabbling with makeup sooner to express themselves. And like, I just go into prom and you hear these stories and I’m just like, man, I wish that was true. But I also just everyone in my school. From what I can confidently say, no one was queer. So it just what there was no interest to like have those kinds of things, even if it was today.

I don’t think anyone would have been doing that because everyone’s married with kids and they’re straight relationship and every that’s just the environment I grew up

with

there’s nothing wrong with that, but i’m just saying like I think there’s a lot more of a Openness towards [00:18:00] it and and almost like Desirability to express yourself earlier now, and that’s what I kind of wish I would have just told myself back then to be

More okay with myself, and I think it would have been so much more of a fun childhood, and, and adolescence,

yeah, and that might have, I don’t know, I mean, there’s so much to look back on. You could be like, that might have, then people would have found me, because they would have maybe felt

freedom to do

that.

It’s like, all it

takes is that, One person actually it takes the second person to the, you know, you can only like, uh, I think there’s, I forget that. Have you seen that famous viral YouTube video? I don’t know how famous it is, but it’s like some at some concert and there’s one person dancing on a hill and then like it.

And that’s not enough though. Like you need that second person because after that second person, it’s like eight people, 10 people. Pretty soon everyone on the hill

dancing. It’s, it’s

hard to be the first. It

It

is hard to be the first, right? But then also it’s easy to say,

Oh, look at that. Look at that weirdo dancing. I’ve been, I’m just going to stay over here.

That’s so embarrassing. It’s that second thing to be like, let’s go.

You know?

 , so it sounds like we’re all saying what we would tell kind of

the things we would tell our younger selves

is like, be you, be unafraid.

But

it’s like, how do you

I know. How do you do that?

how do you do that?

I was obviously being invited to their wedding because I would be the one to get the dance floor started Because i’m queer or it was a largely straight wedding and I like I saw I thought that I felt really good

hearing

And I was I was the one the first one out there dancing with my friend that I brought and like it was a lot of fun and

I’m, like, okay, that’s how people see us like we

should

just be that then

that

then

Yeah, so maybe it’s, it’s starting small, and dipping a toe, and then once you start seeing that the whole world isn’t gonna fall down around you, and actually, the people you meet, and the way you can show up for others,

you know, it reinforces

that. Yeah.

guess, I mean, I know I didn’t know anything about boundaries growing up, [00:20:00] but I guess there’s something to be said for that too, which as a kid, I mean, you don’t know that you can set them, especially with family or parents or like, but

there is that kind of sense of.

Like, I don’t know how to put it. Well, actually,

 Have you seen Baby Reindeer yet? I don’t want to

 

spoil

I’m not going to,

well, I don’t, but

it’s

Okay, I’m not gonna

Well, I don’t, want to ruin anything.

So there’s a character, I’ll try to, not to be too spoilery, but it’s a little bit, who basically goes to his parents and is like,

I’m maybe bi, maybe gay, or something.

But

basically like, I need to figure that out and be one of those people because if I can’t, I don’t think I’ll survive. Like I can’t keep this all inside anymore. I need to be me, and so you’re picking basically between , a son who is like, going to survive or not?

Yeah, the

Which one is it? You know what I mean?

And so, um, the stakes are high, right?

And I guess that’s the hardest thing when you’re younger is to, is to face that fear of a potential negative consequence. And like, frankly, when you’re a kid and you rely on your parent on a parent or family for like a roof over your head.

It’s not always

No, but maybe. Maybe that’s where a peer

group where you can be yourself comes into play.

Maybe at school you start being more yourself and finding those groups that actually support that and where you can be authentic until maybe you can bring that to your, to your home as

Yeah, well.

and I think it’s interesting, too, what you said about boundaries is when we’re younger, boundaries are always imposed and set on us. We are very good at, you know, taking in the boundaries of school and the rules and our parents and it is realizing that we can actually set our own. [00:22:00] And yeah, I think that’s that’s really great advice is like finding your sweet spot where you can be yourself and then it starts expanding out like a ripple.

So, this reminds me of another point I’ve

written, which is, listen to yourself. That idea of like, of trying to get in touch with that inner voice and that inner self, like that gut feeling that so often gets overru overruled.

Right? Like, as a girl, uh, you’re younger, Oh, just let so and so hug you, or give so and so a hug, and you’re like, Ugh, I don’t want to! Like, but just do it, like, be uncomfortable, you

know? For their

Yeah,

for their

comfort, right? And that idea of,

, Just being in touch with that gut and knowing like, no, I don’t, this is how I genuinely feel.

And I, I, I’m not going to let other people tell me otherwise. So like getting in touch with that inner voice about how things make you feel and like in your body too. Right. Because I don’t think we learn that as kids. We don’t learn to identify. what’s in our body and how that corresponds to our feelings.

Like if we’re freezing up for some reason, if we have like a pit in our stomach, those things mean something and those are, there are, those are emotions trying to tell us

It’s your central nervous system telling you to, you know, Behave differently than what’s about to happen. Right.

Or this is not safe or yeah,

absolutely.

A lot of these points we brought up are all about kind of getting aligned with

ourselves earlier

on.

I think that’s true for anyone growing up. I think especially for queer people, because we just have this societal thing imposed on us that we are different and we should be Either ashamed of it or hiding or whatever it is But everyone just has to learn who they are as they’re getting older and learn about their boundaries But you also just have to trust yourself.

I think even looking back before how I was Knowing now i’m kind of like how was I like that? I’m, so not like that

anymore Mm-Hmm.

the first one to like not care if anyone thinks i’m [00:24:00] gay now and i’m like I came out when I was 20 Um, I was like 22 just before 20, like almost 23, like, how did it take me so long?

And I’m just

don’t even talk to me about taking one. I know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

but I think, I mean, different times, sure. But also just getting older and you, I think I was trying so hard to be someone else that other people liked as opposed to just being like someone I liked. And I needed those extra years to get used to just how I am and be like, Oh, I actually I like myself more than a lot of other people and I always want to be right with myself before other people.

And now I’ll tell anyone I’m uncomfortable. No, I don’t want to. I’m not going to that. Yes, I want you. I don’t want you there. Like I’m just, I’m so boundaried and comfortable with who I am because I feel that’s the only way I can respect myself. And I, I a hundred percent respect myself now more than I did when I was younger, but it’s because I wasn’t living for me back then.

And I think everyone has a certain degree of that growing up. queer people, I think, probably more so. So I’m kind and I’m easy on myself, but I’m so envious of the kids today. Like, just watching romance, or, love stories about, like, people in late teenhood or something, and I’m just like, I never had that.

I never had a crush on anyone in my life. high school. I was with the same kids since kindergarten to high school. I was like, I never once had a crush on any of them. I didn’t go through that kind of thing, , it would have been nice to, or had I had like really given into that and explored or allowed myself to even think the thoughts.

I don’t know. It would have just been so beautiful. So I’m envious of

The show Sex Education has made me feel that way.

Yeah.

we see you see we see Like, I don’t know,

this might sound creepy,

but But like, no, when you see queer younger couples, I get

so stoked.

it’s the first time for straight people. You always see

like, and uh, walk to remember like all, like, it’s always high school boy, high school girl, fall in love, have the drama, dropping the books at their locker. Like it is just such a trope that it is [00:26:00] normal for straight people.

So it shouldn’t be different because it’s queer, queer kids, but it’s, it’s something I was, I was envious and I’m just happy that the world. I think we’re the last generation that’s going to be afraid to be,

take their, take a same sex person to prom, you know, or whatever it might be.

might be.

I think,

uh, we should, I think we should do a part two. , there’s been a lot of good stuff here so far, but I think we have more to talk about,

Will you stay with us?

Okay,

I’ll be here.

here. I’ll stay. Thanks for

thanks for joining us on Dear Queer.

We’ll see you again next week for

part two.

Um, if you share our episodes, that means a lot to us too.

Green flag. This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that.