Reality Check In Housewives Edition

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I think I think I have I mean, I maybe like her the least

Right. So this time we thought, at first we considered talking about the election, but we both realized we weren’t ready yet.

brains at

we are still processing. There’s like the processing, you know, signal going on in our brains at the moment. It’s a little too fresh still. So, um, we are going to go in the opposite direction and talk about, It’s

honestly

our favorite

favorite subject.

It used to be a guilty pleasure for

think it used to be a guilty pleasure for me. And now I am like hardcore reality TV, specifically The Hive’s Lives is highbrow and some of our best forms of

It’s some of our finest drama at the moment, really, like, because it’s, it’s real life drama. Even though we know there’s performance and we can see it, and I could call particular people out as being more performy than others, um, Lisa Rinna, but um, But, uh, you know, there’s still, we’re still witnessing people go through and women go through, things that women go through.

Oh, 100%. And, [00:02:00] I mean, now there’s more and more queer representation, uh, shout out Kyle. Literally, that storyline is the whole, the whole reason I got Dev to watch. And Dev has now gone back, um, through all of Beverly Hills season one, all the way through. Is caught up. Is, like, probably sad that they’re missing this podcast. Ha, ha,

what I, so I’m, I’m on the season, I think it’s season 11, I can’t remember, where Erica, Erica’s getting, um, divorced from Tom and it struck me in one of the headlines that they showed.

It said, Erika Jayne’s husband, Tom, um, is getting sued, blah, blah, blah. But I loved that it was referencing Tom in relation to a woman.

Oh

it’s always historically been the opposite. It’s so and so’s wife, so and so’s wife, or so and so’s girlfriend. And so, I just loved the centering of Erika. even though, like, I know technically she’s the famous person, she’s a celebrity, but he’s also a high powered lawyer, people know who he is, so I love that it was centering her, even though, I mean, not that it was centering her because of the, the lawsuit per se, but the fact that they were referencing him as, in relation to a woman, because it’s, like I said, historically been the opposite, women are always, like, the peripheral

figure. For sure. And it’s, um, I think it speaks to the power of the franchise itself. Because even just the premise of housewives and, like, if we think about historically what that word means and how people see it, you think of, you know, the, uh, motherly figure at home taking care of the house and, uh, the family and all of that.

And so I think. And so a lot of these women initially if you go back earlier seasons, they might have had like, oh some like hotshot husband or this and that and it the [00:04:00] show has come so far now that like the housewives and like, like stand on their own, like the franchise of it, the fame of it, the like, Yeah, it’s it’s great.

It’s what we already knew about Women and like their worth and all of that, but now it’s just like obvious

absolutely. And actually, not to be a total nerd, but, um, but the term housewife before industrialization wasn’t a thing.

It was just housework because the majority of the work that men and women did, obviously very heteronormative world, um, the women that they did was all women. always either in the home or on the land associated with the home. And it wasn’t until like we got, um, basically homes being industrialized, people starting to buy products that those things ended up replacing the work that men typically did in and around the home.

And it left the work for women.

Amazing.

Um, and in fact, it made them have more things to do, bigger houses to clean, more food to make, baking was started to be a thing. Like so it became women’s work. But previous to that, okay. It was something that was shared by both sexes in the home.

I love that. Well, I think too with, with, um, the like franchise housewife, like they are in on the joke.

Oh yeah. These women have wine companies, brand deals like the house, they’re the furthest thing from, you know, that kind of historic or not even that historic per you, um, like. of what a housewife is, which I, I fucking love, like, go off, get it.

Yeah, I also love, um, how men are not only so peripheral in the show, but how they are very, like, what’s the word? Very obviously unwanted in certain cases where it’s like, it’s like, They’re, they’re at the side of the dinner table, like none of their and yeah, they’re the cooks. They’re the exactly [00:06:00] Harry’s doing.

Harry’s being the cook, the chef. Um, uh, Mauricio was just at the corner of the table, barely participating. PK tries to get in an argument on, uh, Dorit’s half and you, everyone shuts him down, like, uh, and then Aaron tried to do that with Aaron and Denise. Same thing. Unwanted, like, this is not welcome, this, this is women having conversations and you are not welcome here, this is our

Yeah.

Yeah, which I kind of love.

It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so good. And it’s like, not, not only is that the case on the show, but it’s also, um, was my experience. Like my first entry into Housewifedom

was like, basically when I lived in, in LA, like a group of pals were watching and they’re like, we just get together and like, you know, watch, I think it was The Bachelorette or Housewife, like, you know, at the time.

And that was like the way it was. It was just the excuse to hang out, but it’s like, and drink wine and whatever and be with your friends. But now it’s evolved to the point where like, we’re watching it, and like, I mean, we’ve watched it together and we like, pause the show so that we could like, break down what is happening on like, a societal level, psychologically, there, the springboard conversations that happened from these women being on display is just like, phenomenal.

Yeah,

. And I think, you know what, this is something I need to do more research on, but gossip, the idea of gossip being

negative connotations around gossip, I think have always have come from the fact that it’s seen as something that

It’s this idea of like talking.

So I think it’s one of those things that has been given a negative light because it’s something that women do. It’s like been looked down upon because it’s not seen as a man, something like within a man’s realm.

not to get nerdy back on you, but

more than I do? Cause

gossip is actually, if you go back far [00:08:00] enough, it was like integral to our evolution as a society because people use gossip to know where the, you know, watering. Pulse were or where the good hunting areas were which people to avoid who was dangerous And it was actually this thing that helped us evolve as a society

love it. Look at that. And look at us evolving even more right before your very eyes.

Okay.

so what in the housewife world or Yeah, let’s let’s stay in the housewife in the housewife world.

What what show? What or?

housewife world, what show, what And what series? Honestly, okay, so this show

What and what’s so you’re oh you’re at

for over

Which, honestly, okay, so this show has been on for over a decade now, which is, like, also plays into itself, which is so amazing, because now they have footage and, like, stories, like, these, these women have history going back a long time.

Some of them, over ten years. It’s like, and now feeds itself. Like, it’s, it used to, the show used to just kind of be its own thing, but now it’s like, I don’t know. It’s like, I’m not, I’m not sure I’m explaining what my point is right, but

I think I know what you mean, like about the fact that there is this documented history of the show and the relationships and the dynamics.

And I think that’s also part of what’s so interesting about it is that we see. You know, especially with the Richards sisters, there’s years when her and Kim aren’t good. There’s years when her and Kathy aren’t good. There’s years when like they’re in and out. And that rings true to people’s relationships often with family, right?

Um, there’s things that get in the way of those. Um, but then at the same time you see ultimately everyone still loves each other. They’re just like, because of the human condition, we can’t always get along, you know, but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s love there. It just. [00:10:00] It’s like our own wounds and our own insecurities and our own, you know, max out capacities or whatever that gets in the way of people, people being able to actually connect the way they want to.

Yeah, and I think, oh, you said something interesting as well, um, when we were talking about this. I think we were housewife evangelizing to

Yeah. Yeah.

and how, um, oh, My brain. Do you remember, um,

Which part?

I got distracted.

Oh, when, uh, I wanted to talk about how, like the, the stuff of like being in or out of the show

Oh yeah. . Like, mean, I ju It’s fascinating when they bring new cha new characters on, new people on you,

Do you like that we call them

Characters.

I mean, it, it’s like, I know they’re real people, but they are deliberately bringing new people into their circle because they’re a new character.

But, and yeah, it’s like also they don’t have a choice in who these people are, but then there’s also still this like idea of like, Oh yes, this is like a two degree of separation friend and we are this friend group. And they are because they’re connected by this thing that no one else is experiencing, but then they also aren’t.

And it’s like, there’s this whole like culture that I think is just super fascinating within each, like, year or era of Housewives around, like, the rules between different franchises? Like, I mean, you’re, you’re in, um, Beverly Hills. Should we, should we talk about Vanderpump?

Oh, yeah, I have to say LVP short form. Um, I mean, I was pleased at her downfall, I must say, because It just suddenly became, you know, people became unable to ignore the fact that she had, she has set [00:12:00] people up historically and she never wants to look like her hands are dirty.

She cannot apologize. She has no self awareness. Like,

And she won’t let, like, her whole self be in it. Like, to me, it’s like, she breaks the rules of it, of like, hey, if, if it’s talked about in something, then it, all bets are off. Like, you, they can have, and like, there are things that are off limits, like kids or whatever, but once it’s in, it’s in, and she could not handle that.

No, she can’t.

was more than happy to give everybody else like to drill them with 20 questions, but could never open up about almost anything

It’s like the amount of control that she wanted is just too much.

why she like that was her ultimate

downfall

Yeah. It doesn’t work.

her perception being not being

Yes. Which is why she has spinoff shows where she’s the like figurehead person in charge, whatever,

Yeah. She’s, well, and then even I started, I mean, there started to be other things that made me really see her more clearly.

Like she made a pretty transphobic comment about, about Erica, and in that moment I was like. Also just saw the discrepancy between the appearance. She loves being given a tiara during pride and being praised for being so queer friendly. But then she makes a transphobic comment. Like you’re not that person that you pretend to be.

it’s like, what serves her, what serves her image, it’s just like, oh, this is all so calculative, and like, look, I understand this is, , a show and entertainment, but the rest of the women are putting their real lives to a degree, and to when they are filming.

On tape, like, we have seen, I mean, if we’re on Beverly Hills, we have seen deaths, we have seen births, we have seen marriages form, we have seen them devolve, we have seen lawsuits, , this is real stuff, this isn’t, like, to, like, bring it back to highbrow stuff, , this [00:14:00] is people on display in their, , flaws and warts, and she couldn’t hang.

No, and you could see other cracks in her image, um, like when her, when Ken would say terrible things about her friends.

And she’d just be like, don’t say that, but like laugh because she wanted him to say it. She didn’t disagree with it. She didn’t say, don’t say that about my friend. Uh, and they’d call them terrible names. And I was like, okay, right. This is actually the true self coming out is like, you’re very quick to say, to call people like terrible names.

It’d be actually quite hateful.

Mean, I just also love how, like, I love witnessing people’s insecurities and attachment issue or attachments

Yes,

come through, right?

Like there’s, and it’s always, there’s always people who are on the, on both sides of the spectrum. So it’s like, like, for example, with Erica, uh, we had. Teddy not being able to handle the fact that Erika was not warm to her, even Dorit too. Dorit was like, what? Like trying to win her over. You see people trying to work so hard, which is a totally like, um, you know, anxious attachment thing.

And

then,

the directness, they, like, crumbled under it.

handle it and they feel so personal, they feel so hurt by it. And then we see this happening later too with Sutton and Crystal, because Crystal doesn’t give a fuck. Like, and, and Sutton’s just like getting angry about it almost just like, because she can’t handle not being liked by her.

And so it’s just so fascinating to see. And, and like Kyle, breaking down at anything, like she, I feel like she’s getting actually more easily triggered in some of the later

as it’s, as her life becomes a little more distable, they’re not what she like, planned.

it’s like quicker. Oh, yeah. I might do. They also always show us when they’re drinking a lot, which I don’t love, but

Yeah, I think initially it was like fuel for chaos, but honestly I don’t think they need it anymore. Um, and also there’s lots of folks [00:16:00] who have drinking challenges and issues and histories with addiction and like all sorts of stuff.

I almost would rather they go the like love, love is blind and dating show where they can only have drinks on dates or

Yeah, yeah, right. I know, but it’s always like, you know, boozy dinners or whatever

party. Yeah. Don’t, don’t love it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s, you get the full, I think why I love Housewives so much is because you get the full range of human emotions and experience on full display and we like to think that if we were, we would never do those things or behave in the way that they do.

These people behave, but like, I don’t know if the camera was on 24 7 and like, I’m sure there’d be moments where my defensiveness or would come up or inner child stuff or my ego and things would get inflated. And I think that’s what’s like, so beautiful about it is because like, even though

We are so removed from them in terms of like class and lifestyle and all of those things that there still is that like, I don’t know, it’s like, um, connection, I

And interesting about that too, I find it’s, it’s the fact that you can’t actually be performing all the

Yeah.

Like as much as you want to be, like you said, there’s going to be times where something’s triggered and like the truth comes out, right? And the real emotion comes out. Uh, another thing that I love about the show is witnessing the broken telephone that

Oh, yes. Yes. Go.

Just like she said this and I’m like, dude, she did not say that. But then that becomes a big issue because they said this, they said this. And you’re like, that’s not actually what they said.

they have it all on camera. So we, like, I mean, If someone came and said what, like, I said, I’m sure it would be wrong. Like, you cannot It

and it, it just like sticks to whatever inner

have. So

So then it just, it morphs, it confirms [00:18:00] whatever their fears are about themselves and then that becomes what they’re so like deeply hurt over and then need some sort of retribution about or it becomes like eight conversations later or eight arguments later they’re like still trying to.

It’s, it’s really interesting too to watch um, early seasons.

So when, uh, or when new people come on and they haven’t quite figured out this game yet. Um, so there’s a new, uh, Era of New York housewives and they just had their first season and now they’re starting season two And so you get like they’re so fixate I just started season two and they’re so fixated on things from the past season of like this was said in that and that it’s so much she said she said and It’s because of that broken telephone and they’re getting so stuck in the mud.

Whereas they could just be like To quote Lisa Rena, own it.

totally. Oh my god. Lisa Rinna.

And, and they would be just free fi like Yeah,

I think I think I have I mean, I maybe like her the least.

Oh,

because I feel like she is always

Yeah.

even in conflict with the whole, like, over the top, own it, or I think you need to do, like, everything, and then she can not like someone, but still be like, oh, like, effusively nice to them, and I’m like, this, just, I know this isn’t authentic.

And, so for her, I feel like it’s very obvious that. She knows she’s being watched. If she said it, she loves attention. She’s a Leo, all this stuff. Like, so she’s, I think she’s a Leo unless I’m making that, unless I’m assuming, um, but, uh, have the most trouble with her because she, I don’t know.

Just the performance

feels like, like, yeah, it feels more of a performance versus I’m sure I like everyone’s performing to some degree,

 I think what happens is it’s like they become caricatures of themselves.

And so, so long as you’re highlighting [00:20:00] things that actually exist, then it feels okay.

the thing, because I don’t think the same thing of

Kyle, for example, because I think it’s maybe the, the amping, like Lisa ran into so much amping. And, uh, like I said, it’s even moments when I’m like, the truth comes out later. I know you don’t actually feel that way. So like you’re, we can see her performing.

We can see the contradictions between how she feels and what she’s actually showing

if it comes from her, um, soap opera days.

Maybe, maybe.

Um, okay, question. And I haven’t pre thought about this either. Uh, what would your housewife intro be?

Oh my God, I need to think, I need to draft that one.

Okay, maybe we’ll have to come back to that.

Yeah, I mean, um, yeah, I don’t know. I’d have to think about that one. It would maybe be something punny.

It would have to be. I mean, it’s the thing that makes them great. It’s like they’re, you know, it’s the two handers. It’s like in the game of life.

Oh my God. Okay. Well we need to come up with them before we put this episode up and we’ll have them in the,

sounds

notes

well we hope that you enjoyed this little housewives kind of levity escape from reality into reality.

And if you haven’t watched it, give it a try.

Give it a go. You never

And this was very inside baseball. So if you made it this far, uh, we see you. And, uh, yeah, thanks for listening.

This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that