On Dating

[00:00:00] And then if they were just there

looking for like

hookups, they should put a bag of Lays chips in there

as well.

Hi.

back everyone, including us.

It’s been a while. Um,

today on the pod we’re going to talk

about dating.

We’ve, I guess alluded to this topic in other episodes where we’ve about like,

um,

lessons in love or boundaries even.

Uh, or green,

you know, green flags, red flags, but this one, we’re going to be more specific to the experience

of

modern dating these days and dating online and,

um, the advantages and disadvantages of

that. Yeah,

my, uh, single buds

is

app fatigue

And just like, uh,

this like

kind of sigh and dread about

like, yeah, I gotta be, I’m on the apps. Like, I want to be out there,

but you know, it’s not, it’s not really

hitting

Yeah,

it, feels like, the apps feel like a necessary

evil.

Yeah,

totally.

It’s like,

it feels like something you kind

of have to be on in order to

be connected,

to find people outside of your neighborhood,

people that you wouldn’t normally maybe run into.

Um, but fatigue is a good way of

putting it, because it just

the, I

mean, I guess the way they’re designed is, I mean, there is a history there to the [00:02:00] way Uh, some,

like even like

Facebook,

um, or was it Facebook? I think both Facebook and Tinder

were designed, well first of all by,

like

white cis

men. But in their

history it was all,

in, the beginning was basically

about

rating people. Rating women, specifically. And having this kind of swipe,

like, left or right, this

kind of yes or no. No, actually first it was a number

system, I think. It was like, rate them on a

scale.

which is

just horrendous.

But, But,

I mean, it

kind of speaks to our

experience on those apps and

how kind of

empty and unfulfilling and two dimensional it feels.

Right, to just be swiping like

that. But it creates this kind of, like, you can have, I’ve had, I literally had this happen on

Hinge recently, where it’s basically warned me that I can’t make any

new connections, because there’s too many people I’m not

talking to

You got to the

bottom.

Right? Well, because,

like, I

have too many already, and they’re like, no, no, no, don’t make any more matches, like, we want you to

talk to the people that are already

well you know, that’s all, I think

that all comes back to,

the,

I don’t know if you’ve heard this kind of phrase, but the paradox

of choice. And it’s just like the idea that there is so many options. You know, it’s that

classic grass is greener, and it’s like, well what’s the

next swipe gonna be?

And so it becomes even less about the person who’s on the other side of your device, and more about

like,

I don’t know, like,

don’t

know, like,

Yeah.

think

Like, I’ve checked them

all. I mean,

I’ve, like,

I’ve, I’ve,

met great people off the apps. I haven’t,

you know, full disclosure. I haven’t been on the apps in a

minute,

hmm. Mm hmm. Lucky you.

uh, but I remember

do they, do they still do this thing where you could like buy roses.

Yeah, I think that’s on

Hinge.

I think you have

one free,

be like, you’re an extra special,

I

hate the roses.

They make [00:04:00] me

I never

understood It I was like, someone

said to you that I’m like,

oh No. cringe.

Yeah. no, same. it

makes me deeply

uncomfortable for some

reason.

why

is that

though? Like,

Because I think it feels extra. It

feels extra

when you

don’t know this

person and you’re just, I mean, at

least on Hinge you’re basing

it on not just photos, but there’s

descriptors

and

prompts

and people

have said more about themselves

than if it’s

just Tinder where

you have the

option to literally say

nothing,

But it still feels over the top. Like you’re giving this, like a rose is a

romantic flower too, you know? So you’re giving this rose to someone you’ve never, you have almost no knowledge of. You’ve never met in

real life. So it feels weird to be like,

here’s this

virtual

flower.

okay,

So,

Okay, we’re on the apps we’re not just like we’re not sure about um, we’re you know, we’ve got some fatigue

Are

you on the apps like you’re what’s your what’s your

vibe

Yeah, no, I am unfortunately.

As if I don’t

know

Yeah, you know, you know,

you know,

everything. um, But there is definitely go through phases of

just complete apathy towards them and not wanting to

engage. Like just let just they just Or our hinge also has

the benefit in a way

of you just

being

passive And just kind of

existing on there and

people can like you rather

than you having to actively swipe and stuff and

like

look

gotta feel good.

It

It’s kind of feels good.

But it also just means but what if we’re all just doing

that? so then no one’s

ever liking anyone

because everyone’s just waiting to be liked by someone else. Cause no one has the energy to

Oh my gosh, I feel

like we

should do like a

quick look up of

stats of like how many like swipes to actual conversations and

meetups.

Should we

Google

Should we Google

it?

Yeah,

Um, oh, let’s see.

Anything interesting?

Okay.

I know, I know

you love a fact.

So,

2 percent of online dating users meet

matches right away. Which makes sense to me, because if I start talking to someone,

I do

[00:06:00] try and meet up with them, rather than just

talking what could end up being endlessly.

I think things can die kind of on the vine. You, there’s this like moment of inertia that you have to kind of capture. At least that’s, that was my experience. Otherwise, it’s just never going to

happen.

in,

And also there’s no point in, in

in kind of

talking too much online when the vibe can

be

different

in person. You have so much

time to craft things online and everything versus in person, the energy can be different.

Anyways, yeah, it’s

um,

people are meeting on

there, like, a lot of folks met their, you

know,

partner, girlfriend,

boyfriend, like, both, both my siblings, um, met their wives

on

apps.

Yeah.

Totally.

are,

it’s a big city.

Um, people have lots of, you know,

differing hobbies

and things that they

do. We’re busy.

It’s hard to find time. So like this does, you know, someone can just from the comfort of their

couch one night when they’re home can just do. some swiping and, and maybe make a

connection with

someone, which is convenient.

It’s much easier than, and less vulnerable

than just

going out alone

to a place.

And

just hanging out there and hoping you’re going to meet someone, right?

Um, which is hard

and

I

mean I’ve I’ve done that where I’m just doing some writing or

something and I’ll just go someplace alone and maybe I’ll end up chatting with some

people or maybe I’ll see some people you know or

whatever

but, um, but it’s a hard thing to do and

people can be shy and nervous and introverted

and

events,

clubs, bars,

whatever those spaces can

be intimidating to go to alone.

[00:08:00] Um, Yeah, that was funny. So I, I forget where I heard it, maybe on the radio, that there was some place.

Maybe Spain.

People were telling me it was Spain,

but I couldn’t remember when I had heard it, I just heard about the supermarket event that they were doing somewhere where people just set a certain time in the supermarket for single

People to show up and they’d put certain

things in their cart to signal that they were

there for the mixer and they were approachable

and I was just like, that’s a

great idea because

let’s

off

offline and into real

spaces.

Yeah.

that’s the thing. is getting people in the same

space at the same time because often,

you

know

You bars and

things can have queer events, but they’re not

geared

towards

single people necessarily. and

you go there,

it’s loud, it’s noisy, it might be

hard to talk to people. Or people just

have shown up with their

friends and there’s not a lot of like sort of

mingling between

groups

can’t like

penetrate

that.

Yeah, right?

And it makes it difficult. And so, um, I

was just like, that’s brilliant because, I mean, first of all, we all need

groceries,

And so, you know,

something

people need to do anyways. And it’s just a way to

get people in the same space at the same

time,

and to make new connections potentially. And it was a very

cute

event.

Okay, Aletta is burying the

lead.

What do

you mean?

Well, I

just thought it was

so funny, like you made this TikTok and basically it was like, hey, singles, singles, you know, queer singles

in Toronto meet at, you know, this, this grocery store. And then you had them put in like an item in their

cart so that you

could kind of flag or

signal.

Which I just

thought

was so

Yeah, we had

alternative milk.

and a

pumpkin

because that’s like

visually you could see

it

from

afar if someone, and plus

the the pairing of those

two things, you’d be

able

to see that they were there for the

event. And then if they were just there

looking for like

hookups, they should put a bag of Lays chips in there

as well.

I didn’t, I don’t

Wait, did you see any?

don’t think I saw any Lays chips,

but, um,

but it [00:10:00] was very cute.

We just,

uh, we just ended up

basically

conglomerating in the alternative food aisle section, which was also

very

very,

adorable

and chatting.

And

honestly, there was a lot of,

I don’t

think I

knew

a

single

person.

And there were people

that

Yeah.

And there

were

people. I mean, I did. There were some people who told me they were

going

to come who didn’t come that I didn’t know. But, um, but it was interesting

because it was people, who live not far away, let’s say, and I’ve still never seen them.

And even some one person commented that they were

like, I don’t when I saw

your tick tock. They were like,

I

don’t know you and I

don’t know any of your friends either. Like that blew their

mind

because they’re like, I thought I knew

everyone.

I think that’s a

good reminder. Sometimes, like, we’ll be at

events, or we’ll go to something that’s like, a little bit

outside of our, like, you know, standard circle, and I’ll be like, where did all these queers come from? It’s like, there’s a whole other universe of queers in this city that I didn’t even know were there, that’s so beautiful and amazing.

And there were some people there, like there

was one couple who was

there They wanted more

friends. And so I think the next event i’m going to do in november I’m going to call No friends

ber, and where people can go

and

meet friends.

We’re going to do it outside hopefully. Hopefully it won’t be too cold and people can bring

their dogs. and, and, and whatever. And uh, hopefully meet some new friends too, because that’s, I think

a lot of people have

the capacity

for more

friends. And some people, it’s not even

about having

the capacity for, but there’s a lot of people who genuinely want and

need

more friends.

And,

um, yeah, so why not just create another space to do that

where everyone who goes there, you know they’re there

looking to

connect and make new

friends. Whereas, again, if you go to a club or a party or whatever,

there’s That’s

not necessarily

people’s intention. They

might be fine with who they’re with

and they don’t want to chat and they don’t want to engage, but this is,

you know,

people who all want the

same

thing.

Yeah, I think in the last few years, uh, since the pandemic, there’s

been

a

great resurgence of

[00:12:00] queer clubs

and, like, bar even bars and, like, a lot in this city.

I mean, I’m lucky enough, like, Dev and I met

at, like,

a bar. a queer run group. And like, I’m

so grateful

for

that. But, like, to your point,

you know, some of these things

aren’t,

you know,

expressly, you

know, designed for you know,

making new connections and things like that. Um, you know, you don’t have to go as far

as Elena did and, you know, create a singles mixer in the alternative

section of

a grocery

store,

But you could go to those things and keep an eye out. I think getting outside. of Your like, your comfort bubble is,

the best

comfort zone. It is,

It’s

vulnerable though. Like what do you

um,

any, any,

advice for someone who’s trying to put themselves out there in a way other than the abs?

I mean, I

think you just have

to practice it as

one

thing. The more

you do

it,

the less

scary it’ll

be. And all it takes

is

one time

to go to one of those things

and say, Okay, I

actually had a great

time, or I met some

new friends, and then you’re like, Okay, this was,

this was worth it, and now I have

a few

new

friends,

and that’s

amazing.

How

do, um, how do you feel about a setup,

Like

like blind date

like, blind date kind of

Yeah, like,

like, putting out to your friends, like, hey,

like, you know, in your

extended group. do you know anyone

who who you think we,

I’m?

I don’t

I think what, I

mean, I

don’t mind that, but that does

make me

a little

uncomfortable because there can sometimes

feel like pressure to connect with that person.

But what I think, I

think I’m just gonna start

experimenting with other events

and for example, maybe do one where I

invite

a lot of

couples that I know, but

you have to

bring a

single

Oh,

So then it’s a bunch of couples

with

a bunch of single friends, and so then everyone

can kind of mix and mingle and the singles can like meet each other

but

not

with

under the, with

the pressure of like you two might

hit it

off or you know like other people are hoping you two

will hit it

off. So

I

think,

I’m just trying

to like,

be a little more creative.

and then you’re like, wait a minute,

Yeah,

seriously, I guess

so. They could, yeah. Couples have to leave by a

certain time of [00:14:00] night.

That’s, they have a curfew

and then, and then the

rest can just, that’s actually a good

point. It can just

turn into

a singles thing

later.

so. I

so I don’t know, I just

think

I want

to,

in order

for me to

be excited about it, I feel like

I,

it needs to be a little more

creative

in a way.

Maybe we need to do like a speed

dating

night.

but

that’s,

is that too

much pressure

Some, I don’t know what is pressure, but it feels so, something about it being

so manufactured.

I mean, I’ve done speed dating events

in the past. Yeah,

I’ve went to one or two maybe when

I first came out, and it’s

deeply like

uncomfortable.

Um

Okay, well, we’re not,

we’re not speed

date evangelists.

don’t know. I mean,

they, and there are some in Toronto. I think Very Queer Toronto hosts

those. I don’t know

how

popular they are or how successful they are, but

I

don’t know, Maybe I,

I don’t know what it is. Some people I’m sure that’s

great.

Some people want something that feels a little more organic.

And I don’t know if the

speed dating is better or worse

for shy people or not, like I’m trying to kind of

think it through. I don’t know if they’d prefer having some sort

of structure or if that would

be scary to be like, what do you mean?

I

have to talk to all these people and I only have a few minutes

each to do

it. Like, So,

um, I don’t

know,

Hmm. .

Okay,

so, like, going to these events is great,

um,

but can also still be on the

apps.

One

question

someone,

Wrote in on our social was asking. Okay. What do I do

when I

see my pals or

like people? I know on the apps. How do I handle

that Yeah, uh huh in like in it in like

a friendship match

of

like, hey I see

you

I guess so,

but I, I find that confusing,

cause I don’t know

what they’re doing.

Haha.

But that’s

me, other

people might, I don’t

know. That I find a little,

cause I’m like,

You’re like, I want to know if

this is

like, are we

sussing

each other out for romantic

[00:16:00] purposes And then it can

turn friendship Or

like,

is this just

like, hey, hey, chill?

Yeah. So I don’t,

I find that personally a little confusing because then I don’t

understand if that person is

interested. or not, Right. True, True.

Like, if they’re

like,

Oh,

I don’t know,

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

I got nothing. No,

No, I know what you mean. If they end

up, then maybe ad deliberately, like,

obviously asking you

out or something

versus

just kind of

chit chatting

endlessly.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah,

Um,

It’s like, text

me. Yeah, Yeah,

yeah, So,

I

So I don’t know. I

find that confusing,

but some people

might

find it

more clear cut. I don’t know. Maybe That’s

a bit of my

neurodivergence potentially being

like, tell me what this is. I don’t

get it.

get it. I

don’t

I don’t get it.

any other

advice for folks who just, you know, are in the, like,

malaise of dating?

That’s such a good way of putting it. ’cause that’s what exactly what I was thinking.

’cause I’ve been through malaise

of dating and I

think there’s no point in doing it if you’re not

excited about it

Mm-Hmm.

like, because it’s unlikely

you’re gonna just

find someone who

brings

that excitement unless you’re already

bringing some

energy to it.

So if you can’t meet

someone or go on a date or even chat with them.

and be have energy for it

and

be excited about it,

then

why would they be, Why would they

be

excited about you?

So just

take a break. So I

think that’s what I’ve come out

of.

um,

where I’m like, okay, no, if this is

something

I want to do, I have to have the

energy for it and be engaged

and put effort into it because it doesn’t, I mean, I mean, maybe it’ll

happen if someone makes

an event and you show up and then

you’ll vibe it out in real

life.

But

what I mean is in the online,

like it takes energy and

effort

to be deliberate about it.

Otherwise,

I feel like it

can just

trail off

into

nothing.

Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

And I think too, even if you are meeting folks, like one really

cool

thing, [00:18:00] so

when

Dev and I met, it was,

you know, at this coffee shop and

like very quickly,

we like, throughout. We went

from like oh, like

let’s reach out, let’s follow each other on

socials, Let’s plan like, oh are we gonna like, we went

like,

with another friend of mine and

like, had dinner, like went

on a hike, like you got to move into things because I think there’s like, stuff can go stale so fast.

Um, so you got to be,

you got to be

proactive as well is what I would

say.

Yeah,

Alright, sweet.

Well, good luck to everyone on their dating adventures. If you have any really good ones, um, or tips you want to share,

write it in.

This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that