Bi Visibility with Robin Lacambra

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All girls make out with other girls. It’s just what we do. It’s like, it’s what all girls do.

nailed

it.

guest Robin Lucombra back in the hot seat with us. , you may remember, , them from our self care episode. Uh, today we are in listening services. To, talk a little bit about bisexuality. Um, welcome back Robin.

Thanks for having me.

 There are a lot of misconceptions about bisexuality out there. Like, whether it’s just a phase, or like a, you know, a step towards being, um, fully, you know, Gay, or queer or whatnot. gay,

gay, yeah. Dippin

oh, they’re just, they’re just, they haven’t figured out yet. That they’re gay, gay. It’s a stop on the train, right? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. It’s a stop on the train.

the toe in.

exactly. Or that you’re indecisive or that bi people are like inherently, um, can’t be monogamous or like there’s some kind of flaw attached to it basically. have you experienced these perceptions personally at all? any others that I haven’t included there?

Yeah, absolutely, and also internally. You know, that’s like one of the things that, um, maybe took me so long to [00:02:00] really accept myself. It’s like, Yeah, who am I? Who do I like? What do I like? Uh, and I’m remembering, okay, when I was a kid, I really loved Flipper, uh, so I’m aging myself, um, but like Flipper was a show on I Can’t Remember What channel, and Jessica Alba was a hot teen, like such a cutie, and um, I, I got myself a, uh, like a Flipper poster for my bedroom.

Like everybody else had like Jonathan Taylor Thomas or whatever and I had Flipper. And my mom thought it meant that I liked dolphins and I was like, yeah, I guess that’s what it is. I like the show because of dolphins. And so then I got really into dolphins because that was easier to accept than being, uh, like a teen attracted to Jessica Alba.

Um, yeah. My mom would always just buy me dolphin figurines and it’s, it’s like, no, it’s actually the dolphins proximity to Jessica Alba that I was interested in, not the dolphin. Um, Yeah. Uh, so yeah, it took me a really long time to even just in myself, like, knowledge and for a while to it’s like, Oh, this is just like all girls, right?

Like all girls think girls are hot and fantasize about other. Girls, right? Because, like, girls are pretty, and, like, who doesn’t find them pretty? Uh, so I thought that that was a thing, and then I remembered university being like, All girls make out with other girls. It’s just what we do. It’s like, it’s what all girls do.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, and then it kept on escalating. It’s like, this is just what we do. It’s like, I’m [00:04:00] not Uh, and then I remember someone being like, you know, there’s a term for this, it’s called you’re bisexual. I’m like, oh, oh. So I’m not straight. Pardon?

Well, so, um, like finding out or hearing that there, you know, there’s a, there’s a whole. Term for this, um, did It feel good to be like, oh, there’s language for how I’m feeling, or was that like a spirit thing or, I don’t wanna put words, but what, what did that feel like basically figuring that out?

It was both. I remember learning it, being, feeling validated in the moment, and then I buried it underground. Like, so deep underground. Um, and I would, and then I even forgot. Uh, I remember, like, when I, like, came out, came out. Um, a friend messaged me being like, Girl, you, we, we had this conversation when you were 20.

Like, what are you doing in your 30s being like, I’m discovering finally that I’m bi. Uh, she’s like, you literally told me you were bi when you were in your 20s. I’m like, Oh, right. I forgot. Like I, there was a moment of empowerment and then I buried it deep underground because of my own internalized biphobia, homophobia, whatever it is.

Um, Yeah, like, and also, like, you know, cultural context, my, my mom, uh, is a single mom and a devout Catholic. So, you know, there, like, there were limitations to me being able to accept certain aspects about myself, uh, because of safety, security, and acceptance. Yeah, so, uh, there was a It was a both and, it was like, oh yeah, cool, like, [00:06:00] this is, this is a new label, uh, I just thought all straight girls do these things, um, and then a, like, deep burying of it underground.

I can, I mean, I Totally.

understand that. And it makes so much sense. People might not understand you know, once you know, why wouldn’t you kind of. like it or whatever, but that speaks to the power of this, of this internal process and all those pressures, both internally and externally, like you said, even from family and culture and religion that just make it feel like not an option. Like it’s not an

Totally.

to pursue that as your identity, because is feel so big and so huge and life changing. And you don’t know like the consequences. And it just seems too big and too much.

Totally. Totally. And then I knew too that I wanted, like, I wanted to be a mother, uh, and, um, the socialized ladder of, of relational success for, uh, For folks, it’s like, you find a man, you get married, you have kids, and so I was, like, still very much, um, unconsciously pulled by that socialization of what it would mean to be a successful adult.

Yeah. it’s like the comp head path. That’s the narrative.

Yeah. Yes.

like at every step of that, you know, there’s so much validation, like so much of our cultural practices and norms around like, Oh, you’ll have like a, You know, a bachelorette, a baby shower, like we just like everything is like a firmer, firmer, firm.

Yes. That one path. Yeah. And I think I was extra now come to think of it. I think I was extra tunnel visioned on that path too because my mom is a single parent and [00:08:00] because my mom, um, like there’s just like lots of scandal there of having me and my sister that it felt like I’m gonna do the family line a solid and I’m going to take us out of scandal and I’m going to like Like, I may have been born from scandal, but baby, I’m not a scandal bait.

I’m, I’m, I’m gonna like, make this right. Um, unconsciously. And, and, uh, being queer wasn’t really part of, uh, that, that box of, of righteousness that I was trying to avenge for my mom.

So, you have this, like, coming out on social media and all that stuff. Um, were there any challenges you faced, like, uh, in the community or was it like, how, how did that, how did that part feel for you? Um,

there wasn’t any real, um What I felt like backlash or anything. I think my mom for a bit was confused. She’s like, but you’re married. Um, and, uh, my partner is non binary. Um,

but

but we, like, we do look like a, a cishet couple. Uh, and we have two kids. Um, and so my mom just was like, Robyn’s being silly.

Like, what does this mean? What does this change? Uh, and, and I think there was a bit of that kind of pressure. Like, what does this mean? What does this change? And even between me and my partner, like, what does this mean? What does this change for us? Um, and, And it didn’t really, there are times where I feel like, um, am I allowed to occupy space in like queer affinity spaces?

Am I [00:10:00] allowed, uh, will I, will I be questioned? Um, And I’m a, I know that I’m like really out there, but I’m also not outgoing. Like, I’m also very much an introvert. Um, and so I’m not really like out there. Uh, and, um, which serves as a sense of protection too, from. You know, potential feelings of non belonging.

But I definitely feel the internal non belonging when navigating queer spaces, especially if my partner comes to.

um, that

I get, like, really in my head about that.

Right. Um, so can you tell us a bit more about how you are able to honor queerness within your relationship.

Yeah, a lot of it is just speaking it out loud. Speaking it out loud. Um.

uh,

Like, indulging in queer media, um, my kids are, are also non binary, so we have lots of conversations about, um, what it means to be queer and, and, and our family is quite queer, like, we, we have, uh, chosen family that live with us and we’re always, like, so we’re always in just conversation about, um, What it means, what it feels, um, and then in terms of relationality, you know, it’s funny that the stereotype you let in with Alina was like, bi folks can’t be, uh, monogamous.

Um, so yeah, guilty. Guilty. Um. But it’s also I feel There’s a joke that I said the other week where i’m like, I feel polysaturated in relationship with just myself [00:12:00] Like just tending to all of the parts of myself that need attention. It’s like oh my god There’s so much like communicating and relational work and negotiations and agreement making with all of my parts Like I can’t I can Barely, um, do that with my partner as well.

And then thinking of like inviting, um, more relationship in. It’s like, oh man, so how do I, how do I claim, how do I reconcile being a bi, poly, queer, person who’s polysaturated in a hetero presenting relationship and is also socially anxious and an introvert and doesn’t like going out to places and meeting people.

So,

Absolutely. But I mean.

So that’s, uh,

It’s so important just the speaking it. It’s so important in being visibly and speaking about your experience because it’s Then it just lets other people know that they’re also not in it alone. If they are also in a straight presenting relationship and feel unseen and unheard and unknown, um, they, I mean, I can imagine that would be validating. Even to, to go back to our self care episode where you talked about translating things, even if it’s just in your mind.

Mm.

the thing about I can’t even do the monogamous thing right, or I can’t remember the exact phrasing,

hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

that the monogamy is like, Some like, or like, even me saying that word doesn’t feel right, like there’s some like hierarchy, whereas it’s like, wait a minute, no, like, we could be poly, even in mindset of like, abundance, expansive love, and like, maybe it’s like, um, I guess what I’m trying to say is like the idea that, you know, there’s some hierarchy between those styles, even if we can translate that in [00:14:00] our own minds of like, Oh no, I’m someone who lets more love and connection. How beautiful is that? And

Mm hmm.

that one, that one connection doesn’t take away from another connection, like that you have the capacity. in all of these ways, and I can imagine that again, going back to self care, self care is even more important when there’s so much extra communication required and checking in with yourself and checking with a partner. And, um, so, I mean, that that’s gotta be also really like on point.

Yeah. Majorly on point. One of the things that I had a hard time when my partner and I, uh, opened up our relationship. Um, I called it season one, season one of being poly. Um, it started off great and it like ended, season one ended with tragedy. Like, it was a hard, a hard, uh, season closer.

Um, and yeah, it’s I recognized from season one when I reflect that I had a hard time standing in my truth if my truth upset my partner, like I didn’t want to upset my partner. And then I wasn’t, then it felt like I wasn’t giving them permission to be impacted. By my behavior. It’s like I had this people pleaser thing going on where, um, if this is good, it means the only way you’re impacted by my behavior is you’re okay with it.

Which is not human and, uh, not possible. And so what we’ve been working on in our relationship is like, can we be okay with upsetting each other? Knowing that it. Knowing there’s a difference between hurt and harm, like, that’s a huge thing that I’m really teasing out is hurt versus harm. We can [00:16:00] go so quickly to saying we’re emotionally harmed by something, uh, and feel unsafe.

But it’s like, I know my partner. I know that I’m safe with my partner. I know that they’re not going to abuse me. I know that they’re not going to manipulate me. Like, I know these things. And so I need to teach my nervous system the difference between hurt and harm. Discomfort and unsafety, and the difference between hurt and harm, and My partner will hurt me.

I will hurt my partner. And it doesn’t make us bad partners, it makes us human. And so this is like where we’re at, which is why I’m polysaturated. It’s like, whoa, you know, season one brought up all these parts of me to be like, okay, I have a people pleaser part. I have a like problem solver part. I have all these parts of me.

Um, this really vulnerable part that’s sensitive to interpreting something as harm. And then this wise part that’s like, It’s okay, baby girl, like this is, you’re not in harm’s way. You are safe. So this is so much stuff. Um, and I imagine once I feel like once all these various parts of me feel more full and nourished and held in security within my own self that, um, I won’t feel as polysaturated in a relationship with just me and myself and can open it up more.

But yeah, the self care thing is real. And I think a part of me. To, you know, learn what you were saying of like, this internal understanding. Like, I can be Polly in a monogamous straight presenting relationship. It is, I don’t have to be actively dating four people. Um, and, I don’t have to be actively dating folks of all gender, um, to prove my queerness or my ability to give and receive love.

[00:18:00] Um, and I’m saying that out loud for the first time and I hope my parts can hear that. Like, did you hear that? And can I hear and receive that? Yeah.

Yeah, I think, um, , yeah, there, there can be so many different seasons. And just because you’re not on the, like, on the season of having, you know, people in your relationship, it doesn’t mean that’s not a part of your life or it can’t change.

And like, I think giving ourselves the ability to be like, Oh, Yeah. this is what I’m doing now. This is serving me. This works. And also I may change my mind and that’s beautiful.

Yeah. It’s actually making me think of like the ladder we were talking about for cis het relationships. It’s like there’s a ladder for Um, queer relating, like, oh, if you’re a good queer, if you’re a real queer, if you’re a, you know, it’s like, there’s this urge, um, to present loudly and proudly, um, my queerness.

And, and, you know, when I, when I first really acknowledged, um, the ways in which I want to relate to people while in this queer space. partnership, this marriage, I felt the urgency of like, Oh quick, I gotta like demonstrate that these are not just words that I’m saying, but this is actually who I am. Um, and I’m really working on, on acknowledging and accepting that I don’t owe anyone my queerness.

Yeah.

yeah.

we have to fill ourselves up. It’s all back to, yeah. I love that like self self care is just so interconnected here. Um, Is there anything else about, about bivisibility, bisexuality that, that you want to add that we’ve maybe not asked you about?

Yeah, I, I think it’s, it’s such a tricky one because like, um, [00:20:00] my own Bisexuality being visible to my own self took so long. And I think, Ooh, I’m getting this like image of like a deer in the woods. You know, it’s like, I want to come out. Oh, but then it’s like, um, does it feel safer? I heard a rustling. I’m going to run.

I’m going to run back to my straight presenting, uh, side. Um, cause it’s safer or, or whatever. Um, so I feel like, Yeah,, I, I just, I, I wished for myself to feel more invited, um, and not questioned. So whatever those seeds do to folks who are listening, that like, some bi folks who are just trying to reckon with their own selves, um, need safe surroundings and safe surroundings aren’t judgmental ones.

Right. You need to see the open arms. Like it needs to

Mm hmm.

visible, felt thing. also, I’ll explain this to people too who are like, um, just straight people are, I’ll explain like if I’m talking about family members and things and coming out. I forget how I explained it to you recently, but I was like, when you’re, when you’re coming out, you like, The warmth, the warmth that I receive from whoever I’ve just come out to, like it needs to be amped up, like in order for me to feel that you, you know what I mean?

Like, uh, I mean with some people, it just, uh, nothing changes in a good way,

Mm hmm.

if you’re not sure about how they’re going to receive you, order to feel that, that you have been received and welcomed, like it needs to be amped up, like those arms need to be

Mm hmm.

open, it needs to

Mm hmm.

they need to go a little bit over the top,

because of

hmm.

caution and that feeling timid about it and uncertain, so like it really needs to be obvious that you are being welcomed.

Mm hmm. Mm [00:22:00] hmm.

like the similar kind of thing you’re describing where it needs to be spoken, it needs to be obvious, I need to feel it.

Yeah.

we can, we can do better in our spaces and like bringing in, like opening the doors to everyone and just like creating that welcoming environment because all know what we want deep down and crave, and so we should be putting that back out there. Like, yeah, I think it’s just, it’s so much more expensive and beautiful when everyone’s in. Yeah.

Awesome. Well, Thank you. so much again, Robin. It’s always amazing to talk to you, and I know we will be seeing you again.

This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that