Anxiety & Pride

[00:00:00] I just recently told my daughter, that too. I was like, I forget where we were, but I was like, see they have a dog. This is a good thing. I was like, you always have the option to just go pet the dog if you’re, if you need time alone, you know.

Ah, everyone should have a pet just for that reason, for just for everyone else’s sake even. 

Hi everybody, we have a very important announcement to make. We have decided to make our podcast release bi weekly.

So, , you’ll have more time to listen to us, we’ll have more time to get some clips and things out, to all of our viewers and listeners, and, uh, we hope you won’t miss us too much.

hope you will enjoy it. 

You wanna start our episode?

okay, so today we’re gonna talk about, it’s part of our, basically our Pride package.

We were thinking ahead to some things that might help people around, you know, around Pride. At least in Toronto, depending on where you are in the world, it might be somewhere, you know, a different weekend, obviously. Uh, but hopefully this will help you whenever that is. Um, last time we talked about sobriety and some of the challenges around that and, that’s obviously something that can be more of an issue around pride, uh, with lots of parties and things going on.

And we also wanted to tackle social anxiety because that is also something that, although it can afflict you anytime, It can be even more intense around pride.

Yeah, and I think, 

um, 

drinking or, you know, anything, uh, 

you 

know, we always reach for different tools when we’re anxious 

and often it can be [00:02:00] linked to alcohol to just try and, you know, 

calm 

the nerves and that kind of stuff.

So yeah, we thought it might be helpful to tie it with our sobriety 

episode. 

Do you have a lot of social anxiety? Some. Okay. On, well, what’s your scale? Like, none, some, a lot.

um, occasional. And think it, 

me, it’s related to, uh, I, I view it kind of as a social battery, and when my social battery gets low, I find it very hard 

to 

move into social 

settings.

Right.

And 

also, the environment plays a big factor for me, um, for what, the environment plays a big factor for me for kind of how the anxiety shows up, like if there’s

going to be

lots of, if I 

don’t know this is going to be lots of lights and sounds and I can get overstimulated which then can kind of lead into some anxiety or just make me want to retreat.

Yeah. So, okay. So you’re describing social anxiety kind of in the moment at an event. Yes. So that’s what you have. The most you? I think so. Experience with,

Yeah, I think, and 

then, I mean, I can hang out with 

pals and friends very easily, and then if I know I’m going to be meeting a lot of new people, then I would kind of have more of the pre anxiety of like, 

oh, 

I’m going to have to be on, this is going to 

be tiring, 

oh, okay, um, um, um, 

and it’s like more performative, 

and I get anxiety about having to 

perform, 

um, um.

Go back and listen to our people pleasing episode. Yeah,

absolutely. I get the preform for sure. Yeah. Um. Especially if, yeah, if I don’t know what the environment’s going to be like exactly, who’s going to be there, what’s it going to be like, and the way it manifests for me is sometimes bailing entirely.

And that’s 

okay.

Yeah, sometimes bailing entirely, and then it also manifests being [00:04:00] painstakingly worried about what I’m going to wear. Not worried, but more, more about comfort, because I’m uncomfortable. I’m feeling anxious, so then things on my body are also making me, like, have to be more Precise in a way.

They have to match that.

This 

also, I think, ties into our, uh, 

neurodiversity 

episode because, uh, that also resonates, like, 

I 

don’t, maybe this is a queer thing, maybe this is a neurodiverse thing, maybe this is just a human thing, 

but 

you know when a t shirt just hits 

right, and like, you just, like, I have these t shirts and I’ve shared them 

with 

Oh yeah. Yeah, I’ve tried them on. They’re great.

shirt that I know I can wear, and I will be comfortable, and I won’t be anxious, and it feels good, and sometimes the shirts just don’t shirt.

It’s true, and I think people need to find what that outfit is for them. Like have a sort of go to social anxiety fit, where you’re like, okay, this is the one that I know I feel comfortable in, that I know I feel like I look good in, nothing about it, it like makes me self conscious, and just go with it. Um, because that’s, that’s a painstaking thing for me.

I mean, we’ve talked about it, we’ve talked about this with Dev, how much time we can even spend on choosing socks. Which is hilarious. Because 

Because I know the three of us, most of the 

time 

we roll out with a pair of pants and a t shirt and it’s like, yeah, but it’s this pair

but it’s this pair

that 

Yes. And a packed t shirt.

Exactly, right? Um, so, oh, I don’t remember what I was going to say after that. Uh, okay. How should we, what should we move into

I was going to say too, you gave 

me, 

um, you taught me the way of the earplug, 

um, for like concerts and loud places. Um, and I, I think that’s something that’s, uh, really helped as well. 

Definitely the earplugs are a huge fix for that kind of. when you’re overwhelmed, with, sensory stuff, or things are too noisy, it just kind of like do those things that almost feel it kind of feels like it just puts you in your own safety zone, in a way, by kind of lo going out the outside world, just like, just enough.

[00:06:00] Um, what else was I going to say about that? Oh, going back to the outfit thing too, I was thinking about it, do you think that’s also maybe an attempt to, like an attempt at some feeling of control in the situation where, because anxiety is like kind of feeling like you don’t have control.

And so that’s like the thing you can,

I think that all and also combined with like, if you feel good,

Like, 

I don’t care what you wear. If, if someone is comfortable in what they’re wearing, 

the 

way, the way you are in 

a space is so 

much more relaxed. Like, I don’t know 

the science 

behind that, but like, I remember, like, more so when I was younger 

and, 

you know, wearing the clothes that 

were expected 

and my whole body language just shift and you 

could feel the discomfort 

and that played into the anxiety for 

me as well even 

more.

Absolutely. ’cause you’re kind of tensed up. Yeah. And then that’s telling your brain that you’re

stressed and 

You aren’t 

yeah, exactly.

And so it’s feeding into that and just making it all worse. I looked up.

I looked for a definition of social anxiety and I actually had more in it around a fear of judgment, or embarrassment, or rejection. Which I found interesting, because that’s not how I experience it, necessarily. 

Do any one of those, like, ping more for you? Or, what is it that you feel wouldn’t?

I don’t know because, like you were saying, especially as, as queer people, we’re not wearing what’s quote unquote expected of us all the time. So

If anything, we’ve probably learned that it’s more important to just be comfortable in, in, in what you’re wearing because, you know, in a way that it reflects you and therefore you’re comfortable and it, and like, to care less about what other people think.

And the hope is, if you’re going into a queer space, that you will naturally feel more accepted no matter what you’re wearing. So, um, [00:08:00] So, yeah, I was a little kind of surprised by that.

Maybe those are kind of the underlying, um, Pieces 

and 

then, but what we actually feel, ’cause I know anxiety for me 

can be very physical. Yes. kind of

thing. Oh, yeah.

Um, or like kind of ruminating 

on stuff. Um, so those might be like 

the underlying, but then the way we experience and feel, it’s kind of a, you know it when you feel it

Yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point. And now that I think about it, Like, let’s say I’m feeling anxious because I don’t know who’s gonna be there, or all of the people are gonna be there, and I’m like, okay, well, how many people will I know?

Maybe there’s an embarrassment thing there, in a way, because you might feel like, or just, or just as simple as, who am I gonna talk to, and am I gonna be there, like, in a corner alone for a little while, which, by the way, I do that a lot, just, I choose to be in the corner sometimes, and like, take a little, I call it introvert’s corner, um, sometimes you just need a moment to yourself, and that’s not a bad thing.

So, maybe, maybe, In the past, I would have been worried about that, but now I actually don’t mind going into spaces alone as much. But still, there’s

It’s a, it’s a muscle that you kind of have to work. 

Yeah, and that’s the thing, actually, when I was looking up what recommendations around how to manage social anxiety, that was one thing, was like, practicing it.

Um, and going out of your comfort zone more often because then you do gain more confidence to then do that. because

I was 

usually someone who 

would just wait 

for someone 

to come 

to me 

or like, you 

know, 

find a stand and hang by myself if, if, you know, in that type of situation, 

but reminding 

myself that 

other 

people, 

like, are kind of feeling the same way. And so if you go up and talk to someone and like, once you kind of rip that bandaid off and, I don’t know, it gets, it gets easier and easier.

Usually it’s the, I don’t know, there’s like, you can have a good conversation, or like, And I

have a feeling you’re especially good at that because of what someone said at your birthday party when we were all going around in circles. saying good things about Lauren. One person [00:10:00] said that it was, I don’t know, maybe a year ago or something. They didn’t know y’all that well.

And they were at an event and they were feeling anxious, but they hadn’t even shared that with you. And you were being like, you look great, blah, blah, blah. Like just being like, what do you need? How you doing? And just being very kind of open. And, and she told us how much that meant to her. And you didn’t even know you’re helping.

And actually when I was doing a bit of research on this, that was one thing that people suggested doing as well, was doing something nice for someone else while you’re out, if you’re feeling anxious, because that activates the reward center in our brain. And so then we feel better and they feel better.

And it’s like this kind of.

of Yeah, the other, the other thing I, I often do is like, I’m usually um, I try and find like a helper

You like errands. So you’d be like, what can I get? Who needs a drink? Yeah.

like, let me find a task. Um, I remember in high school I was on the, 

like, 

yearbook photography and I was like, oh, this 

camera gives 

me an excuse and a reason to be in those spaces.

And 

so I, I kind of, you know, you find that in other ways now. Be 

it, you 

know, oh, help the host out. Oh, 

find like, you know, 

find your other introvert pal 

or

Oh, absolutely. Pet the resident animal.

Oh, 

you are, you 

daughter, I just recently told my daughter, that too. I was like, I forget where we were, but I was like, see they have a dog. This is a good thing. I was like, you always have the option to just go pet the dog if you’re, if you need time alone, you know.

Ah, everyone should have a pet just for that reason, for just for everyone else’s sake even.

Um, okay, so Pride is coming

up. Yes. 

let’s,

let’s, 

You know, there, 

there 

can definitely be anxiety about like, am I doing too much? Am I doing enough? What are people doing? Um,

all

Oh, I had a thought. 

Sorry. 

okay. 

Um,

I don’t know 

if this is relevant, but bear with 

me. Um, 

the like FOMO 

anxiety. Should we talk about that a 

little 

I mean that’s the thing because we feel [00:12:00] pressure to be doing something because we worry that everyone else is doing something in that moment. You’re like, but I’m just home resting. I should be out there. It’s a, it’s a nice day or it’s pride. I should be out there doing, but you have to prioritize yourself because otherwise if you do go out into those spaces and you’re not a hundred percent or at least close to it, you probably will have more anxiety or you will feel burnt out.

And People aren’t doing all the things you think they’re doing all the time. And if they are, it’s not necessarily even the healthiest thing. So like, don’t judge what you’re doing based on what you think other people are doing. It has to be on your own calendar and agenda, you know?

And I 

like to, when kind of we think about pride, I like to kind of have variability in the 

Oh 

So 

this year, uh, Dev and I are doing the Pride and Remembrance Run. So we have like 

something that’s 

kind of sporty and then we’ll, you know, we also have our, um, you know, we’ll go to 

Easter’s and queers or like different 

events.

and the Dyke March and like all these different things that kind of have a different vibe to them. Um, but we just kind of pick a handful and then if there’s more stuff happens organically, then that’s great. Yeah, 

I think sometimes people put a lot of pressure on buying tickets to events and doing all the big stuff.

But, I mean some

people can do all the big stuff every day in a row, but a lot, most people can’t, right? Uh, so we have to, we just have to, we have, you do you, you know?

you do you. should, 

we’ve got 

a couple of responses from our listeners today about, you know, whether or 

not they, you know, their

Yeah, let’s start with the one, um, about how social anxiety feels to them. 

Okay, this person says It’s like everyone is looking and 

laughing And then they also kind of give a tip. So they say yoga in a room full of strangers helps face those fears 

Right, so it’s practicing. And then realizing, oh, not everyone’s looking at me, everyone’s just doing yoga [00:14:00] by themselves, and I’m not the center of everyone’s focus. 

Okay, this other person writes I get claustrophobic sometimes when the spaces are too crowded and too loud

hits. Absolutely. And for me, when you mentioned before how it can feel like pounding heart too, that is definitely, um, that’s definitely something I experienced to less. So now I think more that I’m just doing more speaking events and things, but, or just even podcasts and whatever, just talking more, but I remember very vividly in like meetings or classrooms when I was a student wanting to say something.

Yeah. And my heart, like, if someone was close enough, they probably could have heard it. You know, it felt like it was pounding out of my chest. Because I was anticipating talking. I hadn’t even said anything yet, but it was the build up before I was That was so intense. And then by the time you speak, they can hear the shaking and the, like, the quivering in your voice.

And it’s just

the worst. Just got to get in quick, right?

does not get any quicker. Don’t give yourself 

time to 

like, spiral on 

Um, What else was I gonna say about that? I don’t remember. Okay. Let’s go to the other,

Okay, so when, um, gave some tips on how they kind of try and cope and stuff, and they said, I do. I manage it by trying to preempt some of my anxieties ahead of time, 

but 

basically I have to do a lot of networking as part of my job and try to call out my anxieties ahead of time to myself. I think also to yourself, but also 

to 

others.

I 

think early on you were like, Oh, yeah, like I just might need to like take an introvert corner moment and you saying that I was like, oh, that’s great And then it also gave me permission to do that 

And so it’s like you were helped advocating for yourself and also 

unintentionally like those around you 

That’s a good

and I like would look over and like me being me.

I’d be like, oh, no, it’s Elena Okay, so I’m having a good time. That’s the you know, the voice in 

my 

head and I was like, oh, oh They told me [00:16:00] that they 

might take 

a corner, or like a moment, and that was great. Yeah,

And it’s not even like, I, I really just also like people 

Yeah. And 

And part of my experience of an event is sometimes. watching what’s going on, you know, and sitting back and having that perspective and seeing people chat and have fun. Like you can, you can still enjoy yourself, even if you are not the center of the, you know, center of the party.

So I guess it’s, it’s finding finding that thing for yourself, that kind of comfort.

Yeah. And there’s other tips that I, that I saw when I was looking some stuff up real, obviously relaxation techniques, any that you can do. ahead of time, any that you can do in the moment, uh, to help you. And there’s specific ones you can look up, uh, if you wanted to, but. They’re going to work differently for different people.

Like I know I’ve tried some with my daughter and, and you’re like, okay, well that one doesn’t work. That one doesn’t work for you. Practice, obviously going out to these different places, avoiding negative coping strategies, things like alcohol or drugs or things as, you know, as crutches essentially to minimize your anxiety, because sometimes they actually just make it worse.

If not in the moment, they make it worse maybe the next day. And you’re not actually, you’re not actually. Helping yourself really, like maybe in the moment you kind of are, but it’s a bandaid. That’s the thing. It’s not a longterm way to move in the world when you’re trying to, you know, be social.

unfortunately, alcohol and anxiety are very good pals.

Yeah,

absolutely. 

So any anything you can do to kind of be mindful of that, um, I think will go

Yeah. Challenging negative thoughts, which one of our listeners mentioned as well. Asking yourself, what is it about that situation that triggers you? I thought that was really, that was a really helpful kind of reflection that you can do. Obviously not maybe in the moment, but ahead of time or after the fact, be like, what was it about that [00:18:00] event?

Was it the fact that I thought I might have to speak? Or was it the fact that so and so was going to be there? Or what, like, what was it underlying, uh, that occasion that. That sparked something for you. One thing did mention practicing public speaking.

Oh. 

Just kind of getting in there, you know? Uh, I mean, not that you have to go on a stage anytime soon, but in any capacity. , shifting your focus to other people. So that might be doing something nice for someone else or, or literally just asking more questions and not, not in a way that like, you’re not interested at all, but like genuinely getting into a connection with someone and, you know, asking questions. Cause that shifts your focus from you, you know, and gets you out of your body, gets you out of your head.

Um, Venturing into new territory or out of your comfort zone, sort of practicing those moments that make you grow, right? I think that was pretty much it. And I did read that shy kids are more likely to become socially anxious adults, which isn’t surprising. And it’s, can be exacerbated or more likely if you experience some kind of teasing or bullying as a kid.

Because obviously, You’ve had then experience with people in social situations where they are cruel to

Yeah, so then it fits your narrative 

Exactly. Exactly. And your body’s also expecting it because it doesn’t feel safe to you.

So get out there this pride 

though, 

go to the events. Don’t go to the events. 

Like 

to listen to yourself and what you need and advocate for yourself. And it’s okay to take a minute or find something that like you can kind of lean on in those moments.

and chat to people, even if they’re new people to you, this could be like, you could meet some great new friends, some great new dates, uh, whoever. And after the fact, you might be like, actually, that wasn’t so bad that I, that I reached out and I, and I even, I can’t

talk. 

that I reached out and I, and I, even though I can’t [00:20:00] talk. Also, because it’s not like you’re sitting at a table having dinner

like that.

So I think it’s a, it’s a really great time to test some of these skills. Say hi to so and so or I need to go get a drink or go to the washroom and you have kind of natural reasons You have an out you have natural reasons to be like, okay I talked to them for a while and now I need a little break transition and then you go do something else.

Yeah

Well, have a safe and amazing pride everyone. And yeah, we will see you in two weeks. We’ll be starting our bi weekly episodes and yeah, take care.

[Mic bleed]

This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that.