Acceptance, unconditional love, and family with Tiq Milan

[00:00:00] And so growing up, I was always like this tomboy, you know, and I remember saying to my mother’s child that I wanted to be a boy, but it wasn’t because of my identity.

It was because what I saw in my neighborhood was that the little boys in my neighborhood had way more freedom than I did.

Today on Dear Queer, we’re talking to Tiq Milan,

, writer and speaker and beautiful soul. Today he’s going to tell us more about his experience in coming out as both queer and trans to his mother.

All right, well, welcome to Dear Queer. We have Tiq Milan. , he is an American writer, public speaker, activist, and strategic media consultant. , currently a national spokesperson for GLAAD and the former senior, senior media strategist for, of national news at GLAAD. Uh, Tiq. Tiq, welcome to the podcast.

What’d I miss? What do you want our dear

queer listeners

to know about you so much Stairfore

much

for that. And you know, people,

people do my bios and they always say that I’m a national sports person for GLAAD. It must be on my

Wikipedia page because I’m not.

I love GLAAD.

I used to, I worked for them. I was the senior strategist there for, for a

while, and

I still work in partnership with

them, but I’m not with them in any formal, formal way, but shout out to

GLAAD.

You know, they’re part of my

my queer advocacy, um, uh, family. So, so, so there’s just that, so there’s that one correction. Um, what else? So yeah, so for his career, yes, I do all of the things. I’m a consultant and I’m a writer and I’m a public speaker and I’m a teacher. [00:02:00] Um, what other identifying factors? I’m a father, which is probably one of the most important things.

It’s a, it’s a touchy relationship, but I’m a father. None, nonetheless. I’m also a storyteller. Um, yeah, so I, I travel with the moth. the moth. It’s a storytelling platform around for many, many years. I’ve done many main stages with them. I’ve done like 13 cities. I’m about to start

about to

them. Um,

I have my story. Miss Mary is in there. The new anthology of point of beauty. Um, yeah, what else? And I do leadership and development coaching for like corporations and

institutions all over

That’s actually how I found you was through a moth story, that Ms. Mary story that I read in a, in a point of beauty. That’s how I found you. And I was, I just fell in love with your, your story and was sent, sent you immediately to Lauren. I was like, we must have Teak on. I’m going to like follow up with him and see if he’ll be a guest because it was so beautiful and touching and, and that, you know, You just really captured that, that combination of like pain and beauty that can come with coming out and that relationship with family that can be so complicated yet is so fundamental, like, so it’s something that we just have to wrestle with, right?

And, you know, you just captured that so beautifully, so that’s

why, that’s why I chased you

down. That was, yeah.

I appreciate it. I

appreciate it.

yeah.

um, so our first question is just about, uh, so we have listeners who are on all sorts of the spectrum in terms of their coming out journeys as well as their gender identities.

And um, can you tell us more about yours? Like when did you start to explore or understand your queerness and uh, your transness as well? Like when did these things start happening

for You

Yeah, that’s a good question. I think, you know, for me, as far as my journey of gender and my sexuality, it’s been, um, it’s been an evolution, [00:04:00] you know, I think a lot of people think that trans people understand themselves to be trans as children, and that there’s this place where it’s like, you hate the person who you were, you hate your body.

There really was none of that for me. It wasn’t that, you know, I’ll tell you a quick story. This is in my book. I’m working on a book right now. This is one of the stories in the book, right? So when I was seven years old, my mother bought me the strawberry shortcake bicycle.

You know, it’s girl bike with the pink and all of the girl things.

I hated

I hated

I hated it.

Hated

it. Hated it. Hated that bike. Now I did not understand myself to be transgender at seven, but I knew I wasn’t riding that bicycle.

You know, there was no, um,

you know,

there was no, there was no

language

language there.

You

you know, it,

this is, you know, we’re talking about, and I was seven.

So it was 1987. So we’re talking about the eighties, you know, black middle class family. My mother was a nurse. My father was a mechanic. This idea of transness wasn’t even a part of our lexicon. It wasn’t even a part of our world, really, you know,

yeah. So, so I had this bicycle, So,

I did not understand myself as being trans then, but I knew that I wasn’t going to ride this bike. And so growing up, I was always like this tomboy, you know, and I remember saying to my mother’s child that I wanted to be a boy, but it wasn’t because of my identity.

It was because what I saw in my neighborhood was that the little boys in my neighborhood had way more freedom than I did. They were able to do things that I couldn’t do. I wanted to ride my bicycle all over the neighborhood. I wanted to climb the trees. I didn’t want to have to worry about getting dirty.

I didn’t want to have to worry about messing my hair up. You know, I felt like being a girl and being feminine was so constrained. Just like socially. So I think early on I processed it as like this was a social thing. And not necessarily

an identity that was like tethered to my spirit of my humanity.

That didn’t

come until, until

way later. Yeah. so for me, my gender identity was definitely, it was an evolution.

came more,

I came more,

I came, you know, more and more to my masculine identity as a masculine woman in the world, as a butch in the world. Um, and I

learned a lot

and

had,

and some of the most [00:06:00] important memories, some of the most important lessons that I learned was in lesbian but at the same time, there was this deep incongruence.

There was just something that was amiss. Right. So. And so boom, I was working at this, I was a bartender at this bar called Meow Mix.

Uh, it’s a lesbian bar called Meow

Mix,

Shout out Meow Mix. on

Houston. And

on Houston, down on the Lower East Side. And so I’m working at the bar and this guy walks in, this little short white dude, he has his gauges in his ear.

It’s just really handsome and tattoos, and he puts his flyers down on the bar, right? And so I’m looking at the flyer. He’s like, Oh, I’m having a party here. It’s cool. I’m like, yeah, so put the flyers down. So I look at the flyer and it’s him. On a cover like this. And it says like, Ta Ta Ta Tas. And it was his top surgery fundraiser.

This was

the first time I ever met a

So, when I saw him, it was like a light bulb I had no idea that that was even a possibility. I didn’t know that I could be a man. I thought I was like, you know, what’s wrong where me just being a masculine woman, is it

enough? Am I drinking the Kool

Aid? Is something like,

am I like internalizing some kind of weird sexism? Like what’s going on here?

And

there was in that moment when I saw

him that I knew that that’s, that was there, that was the route I needed to take. And so, and so I’m saying all that to say a part of the reason why I am very out and very public about my story is because being that model of possibility, because he modeled that possibility for me and he didn’t even know me.

You know

what I’m saying?

He

changed that moment changed my life. And so it’s important for me to be able to share my story because I, you know, somebody could see me and think, you know, I

could be possible too.

be possible too.

Absolutely. It’s like, you know, you’ve said it so well that, importance between kind of what we feel inside viscerally versus what we see outside of ourselves as options.

And I can just imagine you with this bicycle just kind of being like, Oh, I hate this bicycle. Like just on the [00:08:00] inside, but not really understanding why until you see these other examples that you’re like, Oh, it’s because I want to live like that. And then same thing, like later in your years, you’re like, I should feel happy, but something is still not right.

And then you’re like, Oh. I want to live, I want to be that. Like, that’s who, that fits me better. And I think that’s so true for, you know, so many queer people and their experience. Like, myself growing up, I didn’t, I remember having one professor in university who was a lesbian. And I remember, it was almost like, I describe in an article I wrote that, like, walking by her office and looking in, almost like she was a wild animal, like, Like, that I’d never seen before, being like, that’s the lesbian.

Like, it was just like, whoa, you know? Um, because it was such a, it was so outside of my realm and my world as well that I didn’t have any understanding of it. Um, so, that’s so perfect.

That’s why I think storytelling specifically, um, is, is so important. You know, you talk about being a tomboy, uh, when you were younger and it’s like, I think that both of us can very, uh, very much relate to that. But that was the, that was the biggest thing. That was the lane where it was acceptable to, you know, demonstrate athleticism and these, you know, quote unquote, more masculine qualities.

That was the place where it was safe if you, like, you know, grew up in the, you know, 80s and 90s. I

mean,

mean, it was still kind of a disappointment to your mother, but, but still it was somewhat acceptable. So it is like a rough, rougher version of what they ideally want as a feminine

or,

girl.

Yeah. And I was, I was super sporty. I’ve played all the

sports and I was, because it was in that

place, I could be in my body and I can, I can be strong and I can be tough and I didn’t have to worry about all these kinds of feminine leanings. And

I

played basketball and I played volleyball

and I

went to school in a full division one scholarship.

I was going

to the

WNBA, but I

was like that W,

the NBA.

Heck yeah. I was at the W. Hmm. I

want

sit right with

to

[00:10:00] talk about your, uh, the beautiful story in the Moth Collection of Point of Beauty called Ms. Mary that you mentioned before, uh, about your relationship to your mother and both, again, the kind of. Rift, but also intimacy, that came from coming out to her, um, two times, right? Why was it so important for you to be your authentic self with your mother, and can you tell our listeners how it changed your relationship over the years or how your relationship, kind of the trajectory of it

over the years and

coming out

Yeah. Yeah. You know, me and my mother had a really close, close relationship and she really had a high expectation of me

and she really loved me so much. She just loved me so hard. So I had a high expectation of her, I think too. And she, and she really raised me to believe that no matter what, she was going to love me.

And I really, really believe that. So it’s like, I have to be me and you have to show up because you promised me that you were going to love me for whoever I

am.

And she did.

And that’s just what it was. You know what I’m saying? I, and I, you know, and it’s, you know, my story, my trans story is not a story of a whole lot of resilience and a lot of like hardship and heartbreak.

It really isn’t. It really is a love story. It really is how I grew in love in my trans identity and how I grew, my family grew to love me, I don’t know, more, but definitely differently, or maybe more authentically, or they got to see me in a different way. But it was really important for me to tell my mother and we were so close.

It was just like, I didn’t really keep much from her. Like the usual, like stuff that

we keep from our

parents. Yeah, yeah.

parents.

the sex and the

drugs You

know,

You

know, all of

that

crazy shit. But,

um The love and authenticity she promised me. And so I had to make sure that she made good on her and on her promise.

And, you know, and she did, and she did. And I remember there were times, you know, when she told me that she admired me for me being who I am.

You

know, and that I [00:12:00] made her think,

you

know,

she was like, Oh, you know, I never even thought

about, you know,

what this means and hell, what does it mean for me to be a woman?

Like I had to really think about these things, you know, and there was, it came to a point where she, when she told me that, that she admired who I was and that it really made her think and her, better. And I knew it would. Cause I, I trusted in, I believed in the love that

she

for you to know. And I was like, I can’t, I can’t go with that person, like, out of my head, and even broken my heart.

And then she changed her mind and she said,

I

think get back

Yeah, I knew it. I knew it. But also, and then I, so I said in the story, like, you know, That is a risk as a trans person. You do risk

losing everybody that you.

thought loved you. And

it got to the point where it was

like, I can’t lose myself.

Yep.

And I’m going to have to do

this. And I really don’t think I’m going to lose my mother.

If I, if I was, I was going to be ready to, you know, but I really, really believed in my heart that she was going to stick

I think, um, yeah, for, for our listeners and, uh, I think Elena mentioned, you know, we have, uh, folks at different stages of their coming out journey, . And I wonder if you could maybe take us, take us back to, to that moment of kind of coming out with your transness to, to your mom and to your family and , anything that might be helpful for, for our listeners to, to think about if they’re trying to work up the courage or thinking about, um, how they might do that in their own lives and, um, yeah, I mean, we come, we come out so often, so, you know, it can be to our family, it could be to colleagues, it can be, you know, at many times, just even, you know, going down the street.

You know

right. Yeah, for sure. You know what was really

important for me, queer community,

I can’t emphasize how

enough,

how important we are to one

queer and

How much, how

important queer and

LGBTQ community spaces is for our survival and for

our our sense of

self and for our love. So when I first came out first, I had the unique position where I had moved away to New York.

I’ve been here in New York City now for 22 years. Now I’m from Buffalo, [00:14:00] but a part of the, the moving away was being able to explore my gender identity, not under their watchful eye

and being here and

immersed in such a, in such a diverse and big queer community here

So I had that privilege

of community and

Mm hmm.

And so being in that

space and being in community, it allowed me to create, you know, chosen family of supporters and people who really loved me and understood me before I came out to my family. Cause even though like I knew my mother was going to stick with me, I still didn’t, you know, there was still this unknown.

But I already had so much certainty already in place. And that kind of was

like my scaffolding. It kind of just built me up.

You know, I was

like, if you lose

everybody over here, that’s related to you by blood, you have all of us who are related to you by choice. And you’re never going to lose us. And that

helped a lot.

I think, too, there can be a thing with family where we don’t want to disappoint them. So being able to kind of get yourself grounded and, um, confident in who you are. So that, I think sometimes family can think they have more influence or sway, even unintentionally.

And so if you come to them kind of firm in this, it’s not, it’s not a choice. It’s not, there’s no We’re not moving around here, this is where I’m at, and it sounds like, yeah, you had that community to kind of help you firm that up and, and, and get that. Especially,

percent.

especially if we ever, like, I knew, I didn’t, so I used to be married to a man, came out in my late 30s, um, and, um, I didn’t tell my mother until I was already like in a good place with my ex, stable, had like, you know what I mean, in like emotionally a good place, had things kind of established because sometimes family can try and steer you or make you back step and all that and, and so, so I totally feel that where it’s like no you need to be in a good enough place so that you’re not

Tempted to crumble.

Yeah. And not like in a malicious way

either.

If you’re not sure, If

you’re not

sure [00:16:00] in yourself and you have people around you who are not sure about this identity, then they could take you away from the, from the most authentic part of yourself.

You know what I’m saying? And so you’re absolutely

right.

You have to be firm in who you are. So as a trans person or a queer person, you have to say, I’m firmly here. Like this may be hard, but I know that this is who I am and not coming with all this trepidation. Like, Oh, I don’t know. And I, I feel bad. And I don’t want to disappoint you. Point you, people are going to pull you away.

And then before you

know it, you’re back into the

into the cycle of living

of living a

life

that you, that is not yours to live and trying to make yourself happy in a place that you’re not going to be happy. So like having that firmness and loving and being confident in yourself enough first is paramount before any coming out, like you’ve got to come out to yourself and accept yourself first.

And if you don’t accept it and love it, then nobody else is going to do it for

you. And I think that’s for like any

aspect

of

I was, I was, writing recently and um, came up with this line that was just basically we create the world.

We need, um, this idea that. But like, there’s these gaps that our family don’t even see, that society doesn’t see, that queer people need, or I don’t know exactly how I want to put it, but like, this idea There’s these, like our family, our straight friends, there’s things that they just can’t understand about our experience.

And it’s only us that can create that for one another and for ourselves. It’s like we create what we need because the rest of the world isn’t giving that to us. Uh, it’s not, it’s not, you know, it’s not built in in any way. We have to create those things that we

for ourselves. Are, are there any spaces, um, that were, um, great, um, kind of community builders for you that you want to shout out or, or, um,

let people know

about?

Yeah. So early, I mean, you know, now, now it’s, you know, in, in my, in my forties and in my, you know,

in my demure

crazy

30s,

you

know,

very, very demure you know,

very

wholesome. Um, but yeah, but back in

the day I see it, there was like those crazy nannies and there was meow mix and there was [00:18:00] Henrietta Hudson.

Henrietta Hudson’s is still around.

Shout out to Henrietta’s

Henrietta’s is still around.

Um, you know, there was. Bardot that I used to go to, and there was, you know, two eyes. Um, what is that? There’s just one lesbian bar that’s

still around It’s been

around

around Cubby hole,

Cubby Hole. Yeah, yeah. Cubby Hole. Cubby Hole

Is that right? You want to say that, right? So these are all these

places where I really created cute communities.

Um, you know, there’s nightlife

spaces and bar spaces. And again, I think this is a privilege of being in New York City, but I think, you know, almost like every town that I’ve been into or city we’ve been into, there’s been a gay or queer watering hole.

You know that I’m a non drinker

these days, but yet and still I think that Those spaces that we create a community just historically have been so important for us. And for me as coming up in New York city, I moved here when I was 22 years old with 500 in my pocket and, um, and a plan,

you know, that

didn’t happen. My

plan went down the toilet and life happened, you know, but it was queer community. It was lesbian community that saved me. That really brought me up. I always say some of the most important lessons that I learned about being a masculine person in this world

came

You know,

it really, really

did.

It’s really informed my masculinity as a man who passes as a heterosexual cis man in the world every single day. I’ve been informed so much by the masculinity of butches

and I think

it has made me a better

man, you know? So shout out to all of

the butches.

Shout out to all the

always. I

hold it down.

I love that

think, yeah, I think there’s something beautiful about a woman who can, uh, own her butchness and masculinity and like, I don’t know, dyke culture and all of that because it’s like to be a woman and also embrace, you know, the masculine energy presentations and all of these things that society put on us

is, Yeah, shout

out,

Yeah,

It’s, like, yeah.

it’s, real. it’s

real. And It’s and for me, it’s this idea of creating like a [00:20:00] different type of masculinity now, as you know, in this body and this privileged body, like, you know, I’m a black man,

sure.

And, you know, that

comes with this, with this issues, but, you know, nobody’s going to try to hurt me on a train at two o’clock in the morning.

following me

Nobody’s following

me down

the

No one’s bothering

No one’s bothering

me going into the bathroom, you know what I’m saying? So there is a level of privilege that I

have and of

autonomy and safety I

have in this transmasculine body. And it’s important for me to think about what does that mean? Do I just revel in this privilege or do I use that to be in solidarity with my

with

queer

people,

with lesbian people, with, you know, black and trans folks, like what does this look like?

And this is a, this is a constant thing that I think about as I, as I move

through the world as a man.

You also I think probably have a bit of a superpower having been also perceived and experienced what it’s like to walk around as a ,

Female presenting person it’s like you you’ve

seen both

sides.

And let me tell you, people

definitely treat you differently.

Oh I’m sure

you

people treat you

so differently as a man and I’ve been on both sides of it and I could see it. And it’s just like a, it just like blows my mind. It’s like a real, like, like mindfuck. I don’t know if I can curse on here,

but it’s like a real, okay,

sure.

It’s like a

differently,

you know, the

way the

world really switches when you are

perceived

differently. You know, when you walk in the world differently, the level of safety, the respect,

the it’s, it’s different.

Oh, like, I can present fairly mask y at times, you know, the back of my head’s shaved and all that. And, you know, I notice it the most in the airport and traveling and stuff like that than in our kind of, like, queer bubble in Toronto, but, you know, I’ll watch it switch. I’ve had like a, you know, some guy bump into me and be like, Oh yeah, sorry bro.

And then as soon as, like, they, they’re like, Oh, uh,

you like see

it completely shift and they’re

Their brain like,

short circuits.

did I break you? Yeah.

it’s like they watch it in

real [00:22:00] time.

Yeah, yeah. I remember that would happen to me, and then people would go overboard with trying to, like, like, woman me, like, oh, bro me. And they’d be like, oh,

ma’am,

miss,

sweetie. Please

don’t.

Yeah, that’s worse.

Yeah. They’re just digging their hole. Yeah.

Yeah, For

Um, you mentioned, uh, the importance

of telling your story and, um, being like a visible speaker and, and performer and the importance of, yeah, like rep, representation and, and allowing other people to see you as an example knowing that, you know, when you were growing up that would have really helped you and eventually did when you had that example.

Um, of someone that you, that you felt more, sort of, kinship with, in terms of your identity. Um, what kind of feedback have you gotten from people, like, uh, in terms of whether it’s about your particular story, Ms. Mary, or just other speaking events that you do? What have you heard from, you know, audience members,

listeners,

readers?

Yeah. Well, with the, with Miss Mary, my mom’s story, you know, it’s funny. I do my mom’s story and I’ve done it live and I do it all the time and people come up to me after the show crying,

Mm hmm.

crying.

And it’s, and it’s not about me. It’s about her. It’s always about her. They want to talk to me about my mother.

Right. Which is great,

you know, because

this is how I submit her

legacy. She was amazing. So thousands of people get to know her. Who she was. And so I love that that happens. And you know what else happens to me? Every single time I do that story, every city I’ve been to from here to London, to Nebraska, to Alaska, people come up to me and they tell me a story about somebody trans in their family.

They have a son or a daughter, or they have a little cousin or they have a niece or, you know, they have a parent.

And they’re trying to figure out what to do and that they want to show up for them the way my mother showed up for me, right? Because it’s a possibility. It shows that you can still love through not necessarily understanding,

right?

I always

said, when you love someone, there is

no, but

after [00:24:00] that, and that’s what my mother did. I love you. There’s no, but here, and they want to know how to do that. And they want to share with me that they’re there too. And that’s, and that was just really touches me, you know, every single time people from all walks of life.

And that just goes to show that everybody. Love somebody who is queer or trans someplace on the spectrum. We all

know

someone and I and I also

think it speaks to the fact that even though here in the US in our political Climate, you know,

it’s like the the most wrong voices. They are the minority, but they are the the loudest.

But they are a minority of voices. Most people really just want trans people just to be able to live. Most people don’t, don’t want to take away our right to exist in this world. I think the majority of people want to kind of understand it, or if they don’t want to understand it, they’re just, they’re neutral about it.

Like seriously. And this is what I find all the time, that the world is much, is filled with more love than, than not, than what people have, have tried to lead us, are trying to lead us to

That gave me goosebumps. Um, I love that. I, I love that people are coming up to you. On that, you know, in the second end, the second sort of way you described it as people coming up to you, first of all, to want to know about your mom, which is beautiful, and secondly, that idea that you’ve given people an example of how to love their trans friends and family in a way, like you said, that there’s no but after it.

It’s like acceptance and unconditional and that’s amazing because you know that, I mean, that’s when you know directly too, it is changing other people’s

lives.

For the better. That’s so

That’s what I’m, that’s what I’m here for. That’s what I want

to do.

That’s so beautiful.

I love it. Yeah. Um. We’re gonna post links for, um, where people can find your moth story.

Um, is there anywhere else you’d like to direct them? Where can people find you

on socials

You can find me at tiqmilan com. You find all my information there and also on Instagram at the Mr. Milan, um, and also on a tick

tock at [00:26:00] Tiqmilan,

Perfect me. I follow back.

Yeah, and we’ll post links as well

It was so nice to

meet you!

care.

Thanks.

you so

much! Bye. .

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This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that