Dev Matthews and Hailey Froese are back to talk reality TV with Alena and Lauren, and this time it’s all about the Queer Ultimatum Season 2 with all our hot and cold takes! They give their definitive answers on what sex is, so if you are our parents.. “Go Away!”
Music By: Sean Patrick Brennan @ayeayeayemusic
Transcript:
Hailey: I think that was the biggest betrayal of the whole season.
if
my girlfriend got a matching tattoo with someone else
Alena: Welcome back to Dear Queer. Um, we have special guests today. Uh, do you want to introduce yourselves just a little bit?
Dev: Hi, I’m Dev.
Lauren: Who are you?
Dev: Lauren’s almost wife, half wife,
Alena: half wife,
Dev: Half fiance.
Hailey: I’m Hailey Pronoun. She her and big fan of the pod.[00:01:00]
Alena: Yeah. Um, most people, if you’ve listened to any previous episodes with them on Will, you’ll know that they’re returning guests. Um, and we simply had to have them on to do a queer ultimatum recap.
Lauren: We’re bringing in the big guns today.
Uh,
okay. So have we all, where are we?
Is everyone caught up?
Hailey: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You better believe I watched
Dev: those episodes the second they dropped. You better believe Hailey was texting me every day being like, are you caught up? Are you caught up? Can we talk about it? The tattoos? I think I just texted you that with no context.
Lauren: , What do we think of this year’s cast or even just overall thoughts and feelings before we get into the
Dev: Well, famously mal., Helped with casting. So, um, I liked it because Mal did it. Anything Mal does I like, so I can’t
Lauren: Although I
Alena: that they cast people who were maybe a little bit older. Um, maybe because they’re all under, there’s only one [00:02:00] person who’s 30 and everyone else is under, and like, I just feel like a 25-year-old.
That’s kind of, maybe you don’t need to be worrying about getting married necessarily, in my opinion, when you’re 25.
True.
Lauren: A hundred when you’re queer, I think you get married later. Yeah. It’s like, I don’t know. I’m, we’re also, uh, folks at home can’t see, but we have like a wall of all of the, uh, contestants, can we call ’em
Alena: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lauren: And I’m looking at it and I’m just seeing a lot of long hair down gaze.
It could be queer,
Hailey: It could be queer for sure. Yeah.
Dev: Well, it’s just very binary. It’s, it’s, it’s giving like with the exception of Kyle and Bridget, it’s giving mask, femme combo. Actually,
Haley and
Alena: for Hailey and Polar are both fem.
Yeah.
Dev: I thought Haley and Ply
Hailey: were great.
Femme for femme. That’s true representation. Hailey, actually, alien
Dev: F for fem. Kyle and Bridget are like. MB for mb. Um, but the rest of them are like classic mask femme combo
Hailey: packs. Yeah. Which I think is kind [00:03:00] of a dynamic that the structure of the show perpetuates. Yeah. Like it is a show. Uh, it is queer ultimatum, but it is about.
The heteronormative structure of institution of marriage. A hundred So within that constraint, I think they did a decent job, but could always be queer.
Lauren: Always be queer even. Well, I know their host, uh, she took a lot of flack this year. She did. Uh, and I think it was so evident that it, if you’ve also watched the finale that AJ gave, which honestly. Turn my opinion a little bit.
Same. Same. Because I was feeling a little bit like, can we just have a fucking queer host? But I did like the points that AJ made about, , it being that bridge and there, there was some, there was some meat on
Alena: I think so too, because otherwise it could just be like, oh, that’s just a queer show.
Like if it’s all kind of like, if even the host is queer then, and then straight people may not even be interested in watching it. Yeah. So I can see AJ’s point too, in being like, this is the bridge [00:04:00] showing that like, you accept us too, and you, you understand that like, love is, love is love, whatever. It’s like you’re, you’re showing that everyone can have interest in our lives and it’s all the same.
Lauren: Yeah. And we also need to just like, I mean, having more allies and people showing up. In all of the ways now is great. I, I, I need to be a little bit less of a hater
Alena: I
Lauren: what I thought to myself.
Hailey: Okay. You’ve changed my opinion. I, I was really like, there’s enough queer talent. Uh, what are we doing at the straight
Lauren: there a hundred percent is uh, but maybe just get all put the queers on the straight shows too.
Alena: Yeah, exactly.
Hailey: Great point.
Dev: was fine with her being, um, I was fine with her being big upped until she said, I’m just all about love. And then I said to myself, shut the fuck up. Could you not be a classic straight woman being like, I’m just like a huge ally for the community. Like, just be quiet. Take your ups, walk away.
Lauren: Yeah. Um,
Dev: I will say that Joel [00:05:00] Booster is the host of, um. What’s that show called? Uh, housewife. Housewife Hotel. Yes, whatever it’s called. Matters Housewife, fall in Love Manner. Yeah. I don’t remember what the show is called. All I remember is that Joel Booster’s the host, I only watched it because Joel Booster’s the host, and so maybe you should, we should just be only queer hosts on straight shows.
Only straight hosts on queer shows. Okay, I love that. And then you’ll get enough. Double dipping that things will
Alena: I love the
Lauren: Um,
we should also say caveat for this show if you are listening to our episode.
Hi, aj. Uh, Marita. Bridget, Kyle, Megan, Dana, whoever. Um, host, host lady. Um, if you don’t like what we have to say, come on the pod
Alena: Just saying
Spoiler.
We’re gonna talk about to the end,
beginning to finish. Um, all right,
Lauren: let’s get into it.
Alena: Yeah. Okay.
, Are there any things that really stood out to you about the season or about particular people [00:06:00] from the show that felt unique to you or different to you?
Or that you just really like, want to, you kind of got behind and you feel it deserves some, some attention.
Dev: Okay.
Not a hot take at all, but I just feel like Bridget didn’t get enough air time. I think she, they, she, she, they,
Lauren: she, they, you’re
Dev: they, she, they, she didn’t get enough like space. And I think that I, I think first of all when Lauren asked me in on episode one. Okay. Which one’s the cutest? I think Bridget’s the cutest.
Yeah. And I think that she didn’t get enough time and. Then she was like all being quirky in the finale and I was like, we didn’t even get to see any of that. We didn’t get to see your life together in your trial marriage. We didn’t get to see you being quirky or weird or creative. Like we didn’t get to see any of those things and that sucks.
Alena: Well, they, yeah, they really edit
Dev: on the pod because I wanna hear you chat.
That’s
Alena: That’s a good point. Also, fun fact, apparently she’s really good friends with Gabby.
Dev: Okay. Oh my. The crossover we all needed.
Lauren: Also, welcome on the
Alena: Yeah. But I [00:07:00] wonder if the, I mean, the editors probably just all leaned into the drama of the other,
Yeah.
Crossover
crossover couples.
Lauren: so all about aj, Mel, Megan, Dana, Hailey, and it was like,
Dev: always the messy ones. They just, they’re just covering the messy ones. But I do think that like, I don’t know, like Marita and, and Brittany got quite a bit more airtime in their little friendship. like intimate friend romance vibe, which I honestly wasn’t anti, I thought they treated each other really well and handled it really maturely.
Mm-hmm.
Hailey: I think that kind of leads into a theme generally for the season that I noticed, which was just, there seemed to be genuine growth mm-hmm. For basically all of the. Folks
Lauren: That seemed like the f focus, it like felt more honest this season of like, we’re not just putting you in this chaotic situation, but like there are aspects of this chaos that can actually, like you can work on yourself and like shine a mirror up to the stuff that you’re doing well or not.
Alena: Yeah. And it felt like, um, most of the, [00:08:00] most of the people came in with the intention that it was like, no, my trial marriage is meant to, to develop myself. Yeah. And to see those things that I can grow in and actually just really figure out if I wanna be with my partner or not, rather than like. To just fool around with someone else.
Lauren: Yes. Yeah. Um, something I thought that was super queer about this season is them all describing what sex was.
And the, and the many definitions.
Alena: It goes to show you how different all of our ideas can be though, just based on what they all said too and how different they were. Mm-hmm.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Alena: Um,
Dev: I feel like this comes up. I don’t know, like I have definitely . Had friends be like, oh yeah, we hooked up. And then assumed in my mind, that meant what I feel like hooked up means. Yeah. And then later to find out that they just kissed. And I’m like, what? But to me, that’s just a smooch. Yeah.
That’s not hooking up
Lauren: Or, or a steamy make
Dev: or like a steamy makeup. , I think that all of us have, I think we should have to say right now what our [00:09:00] definitions of sex are. I’m gonna just. Elena’s Elena’s squirming because I wanna talk about the nitty gritty of it all. I wanna be just as awkward as those
Alena: Okay. Let’s do it.
Dev: Okay. Go Lauren.
Lauren: Okay. Um, I think,, what separates maybe like a steamy, touchy feely makeout, uh, and then pushes it into sex in my brain is just like, as soon as you’re, you got. You are touching genitals or like yeah. As soon as there’s genital contact. Uh, I think, I think you’re slipping into sex. Um, but if you’re like over,
Hailey: into
Lauren: I think if you’re over clothes Yes.
And like making out, that’s just
dry
Alena: a make
Hailey: second base, third
Lauren: are we doing bases?
Hailey: I.
don’t know what the queer bases are base, but
Alena: is very straight. Bases is very
Lauren: the line
Hailey: We could reclaim bases. Baseball is gay,
Dev: so if we want softball, softball.
Alena: true. Yeah. I would agree. Like any, anytime there’s, there’s the, under the
Lauren: Yeah.
Once you’re under the clothes contact, maybe that’s a better way.
Yeah. Not me getting like technical and being like, [00:10:00] when the genitals,
No, it’s for
Dev: sure, it’s for sure genitals though, because if you’re under the clothes and it’s just to like, to have a little titty moment, that’s not, that’s not sex to me.
I, yeah, to me,
Lauren: we’re line,
Dev: To me, that’s just a little bit of like. Let’s, that’s part of the fooling around, that’s part of the fooling around. That’s more fooling around, I think the
Lauren: Deb’s mom, if you are listening, please go away.
Alena: Please cover your ears for a few minutes.
Dev: I don’t know. She asked me what scissoring was last time I saw her, so I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna say that she’s probably listening.
Hi, mom and, uh,
Lauren: go away. Yeah.
Alena: Yeah.
Dev: Um, no, I just, I genuinely think , okay, let’s recreate the queer bases. I think that, forget the bases of it all. I think there’s. There’s makeout steamy make or like make out slash smooch. Yeah, steamy Mako. Which is like with hands, which is like with hands groping.
Groping, yeah. Um, I think then there’s like, like almost like,
I don’t know, like fooling around or like, there’s like this kind of other step [00:11:00] other than steamy makeout, which is like the dry humping of it all. Maybe some titties are involved. Yeah. Yeah. Some like whatever.
And then there’s like anything to me, underneath the clothes involving genitals is sex. Agreed. And yet I think oral sex is the most. Intimate to me, the most intimate form of sex. Right. So not that there needs to be definitions underneath sex, but I feel like some of these folks on C queer ultimatum we’re talking about oral as the only thing that sex is.
Right. Which I found really interesting because I understand that in some senses, like oral sex is the, to me, the most intimate form of sex, but it’s still sex if it’s not involving oral. Yes. But I just found it interesting that they like really focused on that. Yeah. A lot of them were like trying to get around loopholes with each other.
Totally. Just. Through whether or not it involved oral? Well,
Hailey: I think they were talking about emotional boundaries, but framing it as a conversation about sex when they all seemed okay for the most part, with the fact that there was like kissing and more, but it really seemed like when it was approaching, yeah, intimacy and emotional boundaries.
That’s when [00:12:00] understandably there were feelings.
Alena: Do you guys think that the sex playlists are enough evidence to prove
Lauren: great cue?
Hailey: I
Alena: did happen?
Hailey: I think I would’ve said I had receipts. Not gonna lie, I would’ve been like, got ’em.
Lauren: That is the gayest thing ever, and it’s so relatable.
Dev: The gayest
part about it, and the part that I literally ha cackled at was then when someone was talking and Hailey was like, yeah, it, there was steamy songs on there and then someone else was like, I don’t remember who was like, there weren’t really sex songs in there.
It was a sad breakup playlist. And I was like, what is queer sex songs? Yeah. More than. Anxious, sad music,
Alena: Longing songs of,
Dev: It’s yearning. Yeah. If you’re not banging to a song about yearning, I don’t know what you’re banging to. Haven’t we all banged to Charlotte Day? Wilson? Charlotte Day Wilson, if you’re listening to this, every queer thank you in the world has banged to your music.
It is not sex music. Yeah. It is just yearning and it’s the most raw, unadulterated form.
Alena: was Dana,
I think. Trying to defend it. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, she’s 25 too.
Lauren: Yeah. Seeing their ages [00:13:00] is
Alena: I was about to say who I found the most annoying, but I don’t think that’s a nice place to start. , So I won’t, , I feel like on these shows too.
It is a great opportunity for a partner to witness how their partner is amongst other people, and I was kind of surprised that Brittany wasn’t more like, Hmm, this is kind of interesting that so many people felt like AJ was like really leaning into them hard.
Hailey: I
think that Brittany got a lot of validation and affirmation off camera. Like I think those times when AJ went and talked to Brittany.
Yeah, I think Brittany got everything she needed to know that AJ was a hundred percent like leaving with her and that. She was engagement because I think otherwise if they had done kind of a Megan and Dana or Melon Marie kinda situation and not, um, like acknowledged each [00:14:00] other, I think then Brittany had a very different experience.
We would’ve seen a very different
Alena: Yeah. Like if AJ had paired up with Marita in the end, because that was the one that was seemingly most kind of sexual in terms of their
Dev: I also think like at the end, in the last episode where they’re like, oh, it’s just aj being aj, I, I don’t, part of me gets it because like I said to Lauren in the car last night when we were debriefing, pre debriefing this, I was like, I genuinely feel if Lauren was on the Creole ultimatum that Lauren would be flirting with.
Everybody and then everybody would be like, oh my gosh, every Lauren loves everybody. Like, not necessarily explicitly so like sexual way, but like I know Lauren to be a flirt. We go out and Lauren flirts with people, but it’s not like because they wanna get with someone, it’s because they’re just are like a enigmatic like fun, cute person
who like,
That’s how they show affection also even in friendship. And so I think it’s like if we were on that show, I would like, I would just look at it and be like, well that’s like, that’s my man. And I feel like honestly Britney was [00:15:00] just like, that’s my man. Like I think that it was just kind of like a, ’cause often with those people who are very outwardly flirty, they have an inner landscape that only the person that they trust actually sees.
Yes. And like that’s how my, I experience Lauren is like, yeah, there’s this flirtatiousness, but then it’s like we get our own connection that. Is outside of that. And I feel like Brittany kind of was by, by simplifying it was just like, that’s just AJ
Hailey: being aj, which is a sign of a secure connection, I think.
Yeah. I think that actually made me like believe in their partnership
Lauren: I also
I also think AJ was like, that was like in the group setting, in the like showy part, but then very much wasn’t acting on it. No. Uh, and I guess like, like I think it’s just like a bit of also ego and like I wanna make sure that like going in, going into one of these shows I think would be.
You know, there’s like pressure and ego and sensitivity around , oh my gosh, is there gonna be someone else even interested in
Hailey: I know,
Lauren: making sure that that happens, I think was their kind of focus for like [00:16:00] validation and that kind of
Hailey: yeah, that really stood out to me watching it too, was.
having such compassion, um, for these people being like, for the beginning part of the episode or the series when they have to be chosen. So rough. That’s so, so stressful.
Alena: You wanna have
Dev: also. I don’t wanna be mean, but I was actually never bothered by AJ very much because I was way too bothered being, being bothered by
Alena: Mel, Oh my God. Yes. I
Dev: I like, I’m sorry, Mel, I’m sorry. I’m sure you’re a good person. IRL, but on TV you do not
Alena: trust. No,
Dev: And I just, I didn’t like the vibe and I was, I actually was like, I could see through aj, I was like, oh, you’re just being kind of like a lot, but you are probably a good person with Mel. I like actually couldn’t find the center.
Like I couldn’t figure out what the redeemable part was and that’s probably not very kind. I’m sure that. Like this is a show, so like, I’m sure like the people love her and, and that she’s a great person. But like on tv I just couldn’t, I couldn’t get past her. Like front.
Alena: [00:17:00] Yeah. I mean, I feel like. Lot of walls and yeah, just like not having maybe enough kind of tr maybe not even trusting herself enough to then like be in a relationship with someone else and probably wanting this validation from other people, but then actually not wanting to like
commit
to that or reciprocate. So I dunno.
But I have to say, even watching the reunion, I felt bad for Marie because you can tell she’s still so angry. Yes. So
Lauren: That was the like. She was sitting and just like, yes. Vibrating on
Dev: Can we talk
Alena: and it was a year later and it was a year later, and she still had that same level of
Lauren: anger.
It was intense. Yeah. Yeah.
Dev: Can we talk about
Alena: process? Yes.
Lauren: Have at it Lead us.
Dev: Come
on. They’re just brussel sprouts. And I’m sorry, just because you teach your partner how to cook brussel sprouts, somehow you have like a, you have a trademark on those brussel sprouts for the rest of [00:18:00] time.
Lauren: me tell you, I’ve got some recipes that came from past
Hailey: Yeah. No shit. We all do. We just, and thank you. They’re delicious. I think Marie is still, honestly, of the whole cast. She’s the only one that I think seemingly came out of this. Kind of bro, like worse off maybe than she went into it. Um, hopefully she’s like learned and, and kind of found some healing or found some like clarity from it.
But everyone else, halfway through, like when, after the first drop of episodes, I was like, oh, this is, I don’t know if I can watch part two. This seems. Just to be too painful and all of these people are just in really bad situations. But then by the end, I think it really kind of
Lauren: pulled it
Hailey: really pulled it out.
The growth. And like even if I disagree with some of their decisions, um, they seem to all have like landed except for Marie. And I think
Lauren: Ashley too, a little bit. And
Alena: that’s true.
Hailey: That’s true. That’s true. Well, no,
Lauren: I guess it just got mean.
Hailey: I think Ashley Marita. Were so not supposed to be together that they, they were still in.
Yeah. That may be the not nice part of a breakup, but I’m glad they weren’t [00:19:00] together. But Marie was in the petty part of a breakup when, like the littlest things that your ex does, you just make into a, you feel so righteous
Alena: it. Mm-hmm.
Lauren: so true.
Hailey: she doesn’t moved on
Dev: you, but then you say that to your pals
Hailey: you don’t like,
Lauren: would say it on tv.
Hailey: that on tv.
Lauren: Um, with. Yeah, with Ashley and Marita, literally the very first episode where I was like, okay, who, who’s not making it?
And it’s like we saw them have one conversation together and we’re like, those two are not supposed to be together. Mm-hmm. Even their friends showing up, they’re like, everyone’s like, no sweeties.
I
Hailey: No. I also think they had, obviously they were talking about like murder was talking about like big gestures.
I don’t think they had any sexual chemistry At all. Which I wonder if that was something they weren’t talking about on camera, but. Maybe was an issue. Yeah. Um, but was like the physical aspect and not just the kind of romantic gestures or
Lauren: Okay. So as of the reunion, the folks who are together still are Dana and Megan, [00:20:00] Kyle and Bridget, AJ and Brittany, Haley and Pilar.
Mm-hmm. Um, I’d love to know, do we who, who’s going the distance?
Hailey: Aj, Brittany. Hailey and Pilar.
Lauren: Is that consensus?
Alena: Who’d you say? AJ and Brittany. You don’t think Kyle and Bridget?
Hailey: I think that they’re, I just don’t see them actually getting married, to be honest.
Dev: Yeah. I will say that like, um, uh, astrologically, they’re a really good match.
Leo’s an Aquarius is famously do very well
Lauren: So Kyle is a, is a Leo and Bridget is an
Dev: Yeah. And Leos an Aquarius do really well together. It makes complete sense though that they said that they’re both highly type B and like, um, can’t figure out who to clean because I can tell you right now if I lived with a Leo and I’m an Aquarius, if I lived with a Leo.
I would never be doing anything other than out in the world, dancing, hanging [00:21:00] out, going to shows. I would just never do the adult things. It is like Lauren’s tourist energy that makes me adult. So I will say that I think that they’re a good match astrologically. They might, they might stick it. I don’t
Lauren: maybe there’s some star signs in there that might help, like rising
Alena: Yeah, we need to know more. Um, but what I found, , just to sort of backtrack for a second, with Megan and Marie in their own relationships, for them to, they were the ones that, for me, was most obvious, that when they returned to their, like.
trial
marriage with their ex-partner, you could see them revert. Oh yeah.
Out of whatever they had learned from their, from their trial marriage with like, uh, the strangers, you know, like the other people like Megan came out so strong and then you just saw her shrink. Yeah. And be like, and just like backtrack. And then Marie two. Like, well, mind you, she just had a bad kind of trial marriage, but I thought she had maybe [00:22:00] learned that she needed to kind of stick to her guns a little more.
But then you saw her just like trying to convince Mel that Mel is good enough and deserves love, and she’s just trying to like, you’re good, you’re good. I love you, I swear. But like you can’t convince someone of that. And I think Marie was just hoping she could like convince her that she. Deserved her Le like, I don’t know, it was just, it was interesting to see them both kind of like probably revert right back into whatever patterns they had had previously.
Lauren: A hundred percent. And especially with Megan and Dana, you could literally see. The, you could, the conversations Megan was having with Hailey, you could hear Dana.
Mm-hmm. It was entirely a script from that. She’s like, this is what my partner wants me to say. I know I didn’t love you. Like there was love, but it’s like, girl, we watched the same show you were saying. You were literally in love, falling in love, love, love,
Alena: fact that she asked for her, uh, Hailey [00:23:00] to apologize to
Lauren: Oh, that was so
Dev: When she said that, I literally went, are you, are you okay? Yeah. That is on. Like also Hailey’s reaction was like, perfect. Yeah. Hailey, like, Hailey literally being like lu
Alena: you know what?
Literally,
Dev: know what? I don’t want you ever in my life, ever again in
Alena: that conversation, in my, in my mind, I said, Hailey just won. Yeah. Like Haley just won this whole show. She won.
Hailey: I actually think she was, I mean, I’m not biased at all ’cause of her
Alena: Yeah.
Hailey: um, but she was actually my favorite of all of them. I think that the way that she was able to like be fully open mm-hmm.
Lauren: mm-hmm. To the
Hailey: experience and. Like, follow her heart, learn, um, have, make, make a connection, but also the way that she was honest and caring with Pilar.
Like, that’s really hard to do. And I have empathy for Mel, like as a complete counter example, um, how Mel handled that conversation with Marie in the car when she just straight up lied. I totally understand the instinct to lie when you’re caught in a quarter and. You’ve hurt [00:24:00] somebody, but to not have like, to not be brave enough to say the hard thing, to not have like practiced that skill within yourself, and even if you maybe don’t get it right in that moment, to not immediately follow up.
Even if it’s off camera and be like, Hey, actually no, I, I did do this. Um, compared to how Hailey handled the conversation with Pilar, I’m remembering that one scene on the balcony, especially when she really, um, was honest without giving too many details and was really caring, but respected PI’s boundaries and like that’s, I think why they were able to stick the lending and stay or get engaged and they’re still together.
Um,
Lauren: and
so we’re adding, we’re keeping Hailey and Lar in the, they’re gonna, they’re gonna find their way through
Hailey: I
think if they can handle that after 10 years together, like. They’ll be good. Nice.
Dev: I’m only holding out hope for Hailey and Pilar and AJ and Brittany. I think that Kyle and Bridget will have a very long, maybe seven year long engagement where they don’t necessarily get married, they can’t figure it out.
He was like, can you imagine planning a wedding and that, no. So
Lauren: also isn’t a failure,
Dev: I’m not saying it’s a failure, I’m just saying I don’t know if they’ll get, I don’t know if they’ll like stick a a long marriage. [00:25:00] I do see, I do see Hailey and Pilar and AJ and Brittany. I also think for Pilar, um. The like bond with Haley and with Haley’s family is already familial.
And I think that’s a huge part of like what a marriage is, is creating family. And I think that when you’re together for that long and Pilar doesn’t have a very. Like clean sense of her, like an easy sense of her own family.
I think that she has that connection with Haley and Hailey’s family and like that’s, once you have that established, it’s easier to kind of get through the other stuff that a marriage brings because you already have that huge foundation underneath you.
Alena: Yeah. And, uh, were you gonna say shout it to Kyle’s mom?
Lauren: No. Shout out to Haley’s
Alena: dad.
Oh, to Haley’s dad.
Lauren: Yes. That was such a beautiful moment with, , him. I, it was so honest ’cause he’s like, wow, this is not what I expected. This is a wild thing, but also you are family. And I just thought that was such a, a beautiful. Gift [00:26:00] for, uh, Pilar.
Dev: I also think it’s a lesson in, because he said, oh, we don’t talk about feelings much.
This is like weird for us. It didn’t read, like they don’t
Lauren: talk about feelings
Dev: It read like they were all very comfortable showing up vulnerably. And I think what I thought when I watched that scene was that it’s a good reminder like my fam, my mom’s side of the family, which is the side of the family that I like, you know.
Most emotionally like connect with and divulge with, we share everything, every little gory detail. And I think that that is a practice, but I also think that you don’t have to have that in order to be vulnerable. And I think that sometimes people are so afraid of showing up vulnerably with their family members.
And when they do it often, it’s often good. Like it often. Helps connection. And I think like it was a nice little demonstration of , obviously Kyle’s mom and Kyle have a relationship where they’re vulnerable with each other and they talk and they’re open and that’s great. But I also think that it just goes to show like if you don’t have that relationship with your family, like [00:27:00] try like, just try being vulnerable because especially
Hailey: if it’s basis of love, of course
Dev: it comes.
It comes from a good place. Yeah.
Lauren: , Anyone have any thoughts on Dana and Megan?
Alena: Oh dear. I mean,
Dana’s so young, and you can just feel how much she wants to just like twist Megan’s Often, she just feels like she’s. I don’t know. I like what was nice to see with Megan and Hailey was, and Megan voiced, this was like, Hailey gave me the space to , want to lean in, want to, to figure this out with my family and want to be stronger. Whereas Dana was just like applying pressure on her. Like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this.
Um, and I don’t know, I just worry, I don’t
Lauren: I thought data like, , the arc through the, to through until the reunion.
Alena: the reunion. True.
Lauren: I feel like. There was certainly, it seemed like a [00:28:00] lot of reflection and growth in like seeing, having to see themselves back and actually like art, like articulating that.
I also will say for data, I thought, um, her match with Mel was a really good one because I don’t think anyone else would’ve been able to call, like, call Mel out so, so many times, like when they met up for the, I dunno, after getting back with your original partner and like being like, this is what you’re saying.
No, it’s not that. And I was like, oh, that’s really good.
Hailey: Yeah, I think Mel definitely like got something out of Dana. And Dana must have had, I mean they obviously had a strong connection. I do think, I can’t remember, was it Mel who said at the reunion, that they kinda brought out or en enabled each other’s like worst
Alena: mm-hmm.
Thinking
Lauren: best
and worst or like,
Hailey: Yeah. Best and worst, which I think makes a lot of sense. Like I could see why they were attracted to each other and like how they. We’re able to see each other, which is like so intoxicating to feel seen by somebody. Um, but also have they made so many poor decisions, like can we talk about
matching the tattoos?
I think that [00:29:00] was the biggest betrayal of the whole season.
if
my girlfriend got a matching tattoo with someone else
Alena: after they had talked about getting matching tattoo
Lauren: That part, that part sucks.
But
honestly, I, I forget if it was Dana who said it, but one of them said that it’s like, at, at some level we knew we weren’t gonna be in each other’s life.
And then to have this symbol of that moment, no, we we’re not even
Alena: saying, I think that’s retroactive
Lauren: Retroactive because I was like, oh, huh, maybe I’m just so convincible
Hailey: a thing. I think it’s a thing kind of like sex. It’s like what?
What does it mean to you and what’s the definition? I think they
Dev: thought about it. Owl? No, I don’t think they thought about it. I think they were like, you wouldn’t get tattoos and they were like amping each other up.
Alena: because they were like writing. Because they were like writing letters and crying to each other over having
Hailey: see the letters.
I feel fine about
Alena: no, but what I mean in the context, the tattoo, in the context of when they had gotten in in this like emotional kind of departure, you know?
Yeah.
Dev: I did really, I really I thought I liked her showing up in that final [00:30:00] EP and being like, this is a nice bar for which to have a mirror into, like how much growth I need to have and like seeing myself.
On screen through these episodes reveals to me that I have a lot of work to do and I wanna like keep working on myself. Yes. And Megan saying like, I actually see that growth already and like I can see how you’ve changed. Like I liked that moment and I think that it’s very indicative of being 25. , Dana is so early in her self-actualization and like, just think of.
How much work and space and time goes into like developing your own sense of self and confidence and kindness and like all of these things in relationship and alone in your thirties and in your twenties. It’s like she’s got a long, I actually think that she is doing pretty well for where she’s at. I don’t think I would have that level of self awareness at 25,
Hailey: especially if you partners.
Had a family that wasn’t acknowledging or accepting of you and your relationship. Like I have been really fortunate to not have that experience, but I can imagine it’d be really [00:31:00] hard and it, and it would mm-hmm. Kind of, especially at that age, probably eat away at your sense of security and a bit of your sense of self.
Um, especially they’ve been together for, you know, several years, so I think they talked about that, but I think they talked about it more. In terms of how it impacted Megan and less about kind of what that has done to Dana and how she shows up. Both like in the relationship but also like in, in the world and like as
Lauren: We just need more of these shows so that, you know, for all of our critiques and like ideas about it, it’s like the more examples and, um, pictures of, of queer relationships, messy, not messy, all of those things, it’s like we need so much more of this type of content.
Dev: Queer Love Island.
Queer Temptation Island. Queer Bachelor. Queer. Bachelorette Queer.
Alena: Love is Blind.
Dev: Queer Fear Factor. Yeah. Queer.
Hailey: Actually, you know what I want is a queer. Ultimatum, but like Golden [00:32:00] Edition. You know how they have like the Golden Bachelor, like older
Alena: oh yes. I
Hailey: like we don’t, we have like no representation in
Lauren: age diversity
Hailey: of older queer relationships.
Like we have a lot. We
Dev: all just cry. That’s the point because the all like That’s true. The Golden, the Golden series is just too emotional. And a queer golden series would have us all on the floor.
Alena: I
love it.
Lauren: What do you got? Give us a, I can’t. Give us a nugget. I can’t a Elena, I can’t ano, I dunno.
No more shows. We, we shouldn’t have
Alena: hot today.
My brain can’t do it.
Lauren: That’s okay.
Alena: Yeah.
Hailey: would you go on the queer ultimatum? Hell
Lauren: Uh, excuse me, fiance. Kidding.
Hailey: I’m kidding.
Alena: In theory, hypothetically,
Lauren: I do think these shows are so good for not only making you feel great about your relationships, but like how the conversations that spin out of it. I’m so super grateful for people , who put their selves out there like this so that we can talk shit. Uh, empathize, relate, [00:33:00] cry, laugh, all of it.
It’s so important.
Alena: And it gives us opportunities to talk about things like, well, how do we define sex? And like, if you’re with someone you’re dating or partner, maybe this is a conversation you need to have in terms of, you know, defining your own boundaries around your relationship.
, Or even how you feel about particular people on the show is indicative as well of who you relate to or, um, you know, who you trust or don’t trust on. The show is indicative, right?
Hailey: Totally. Yeah. Echoing that big thanks to the cast for being vulnerable and showing their lives and giving us like entertainment and thought provoking, , tv.
Alena: Yeah. Check your dms ’cause I’ll be messaging you to come on the pod.
Lauren: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting th