Listener Questions with Nick Rovers Part 1

[00:00:00] you’re expecting a lot more from the coming out part, but now it’s the big actions that are actually going to have the impact,

 I

 

Well, happy new year. Um, we are kicking off this month with, uh, some questions from our listeners. Uh, so I hope you’re ready.

Yeah.

I hope I’m ready too.

Um, and if you can’t recognize that sweet, sweet voice, uh, we’ve got our, our friend of the pod, Nick Rovers on, uh, do you want to introduce

Rovers. I think this is my fourth time on? I don’t remember, but

You might be our most common.

Probably

fan. No, I, yeah.

I love being here. This is awesome. Thanks for inviting me back,

me back. And our, uh, guest star in the corner, if you, uh, see

guest dog

New

sweetest boy

 Well, shall we just jump right in?

in?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don’t know. I’ve got some questions for you too as well, just to throw a little, you know.

why don’t I warm up and ask you

think you should. I think you should.

Okay, we’re gonna, I’m gonna start with softball.

Okay, so I have a question from one of our listeners They want to know how to flirt with women.

So they know you’re being gay and you’re not just being friendly It’s rough out

This is the eternal question.

question. I’ll field this one.

perfect.

No,

please.

I mean,

yeah, this is such a perfect question because it’s the [00:02:00] eternal question. Yeah. Um. That it’s, and it’s such an easy trap to fall into. Um, sorry, we just had the cutest little growl from Benji. Um, I mean, I gotta say I struggle with this too. So I don’t even know if I’m the best person to ask this question to.

What do you guys, maybe you guys need to throw out some advice first.

I think being friendly is flirty.

but

a good point.

point.

I think when you are friendly and you know you’re flirting, but you’re still unsure if people, the other person knows you’re flirting, as long as you’re being that friendly and engaging and warm, open self, you, it might bamboozle them and they’re like, Oh, this person’s probably flirting with me, even if they just thought you were being nice at the start, but leading with that energy.

is going to at least open a door to it potentially going there on a future encounter. Like it doesn’t have to be, I’m hitting on someone at a bar and I want them like sleazy pickup lines. I think as long as you’re leading with that friendly energy, it will eventually become apparent

Yeah, that’s a great point.

if,

the

contact remains

multiple times.

And I think too, dropping some subtle hints is always a good vibe of being like, Oh, um, yeah, like single life lol, or like,

like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

yeah. Totally. Or just responding to something in a way that’s like, In a way that’s flirty is like, but maybe not all the time, but like throwing that in there so that it’s like, it does open that door. Yeah. But it’s

tough.

a big one too. Like if you, even if you just lead with things that are charming and friendly, but also complimenting them in a way that’s like, maybe, uh, A colleague or a teacher or a boss wouldn’t

them in that way.

The people can make those distinctions even after the fact they might be like, Oh yeah, they really talked about my looks or something about me in a way

that’s

a bit more than friends kind of thing.

And then they can do with it what they want.

they want.

What about even making a joke [00:04:00] about it? Yeah. Like, like just going straight at it of being like, oh my gosh, flirting with women is like,

How do you like my flirting so far? Something like that? How

How am I doing? Scale of 1 to 10.

don’t want to do

that.

this listener asking because they don’t know that the other person is queer?

So they don’t know

guess so. I guess so. It seems like that. It’s not like it’s a friend that they already know. It’s like someone new and they just want to make it apparent that, Hey, I’m like flirting with you in a gay way. Like I’m, I’m, I think you’re really cute.

I think you’re really cute. That’s a tricky

one,

a tricky one because I think that’s just over. Every generation has had to be like, okay, I’m talking to this person. Are they gay or not? Do I signal or not?

And, and there’s really no harm though, in just like asking them out for a coffee or something, or just something that’s pretty innocuous, but still shows that like, Hey, I’m interested in you in some way.

And they have the option to, or like asking for a number or like their Instagram, so you can follow them. And then maybe see you, maybe you can get hints as to what, what their, you know, um, sexuality is, is, is. is to, and then, and then pursue it. But it’s also up to them to like, communicate back yes or no, or what their interests are, but there’s no, there’s never any harm in like putting yourself out there and asking.

And I think you just have to be okay with rejection.

Of like, like I think, like, you know, Uh, putting it out there and like saying, oh, I’m interested, or dropping those more overt, uh, hints. Uh, you need to be co like comfortable and confident that like a no is okay and like they might

not be interested

okay. Yeah.

straight, totally valid. Um, like just yeah, be, be ready for those.

And I think those thing people who can put themselves out there is also

attractive.

Yeah.

I think the difference between my twenties to thirties as well was just that you can be a lot more unapologetic about it. And instead of saying, Hey, do you want to go for coffee with me sometime and be like, Hey, can I take you on a coffee date?

Next week, [00:06:00] like use, use words that

are a Yeah.

it demystifies and it makes it look like

Yeah, just there,

passing up a great

totally. There’s more clarity there to say something like to actually insert the word date in there. That’s a great point. Yeah,

yeah.

be like, oh, I, I don’t, I see you more as a friend or I actually am straight But I’d love to still go coffee with you if you want to have like a chat or I’m really liking you I want to be your friend.

Like you’ll, you’ll know it’s, it’s a two way street whether you’re going to date or get into a relationship or anything. So you can put what out that, what you put out there and wait and see if it comes back because people are, people pick up on these things quite well too.

too.

On my list for, 2025 was taking long shots. I think we should just all, like, you know, this listener can just aim for that too.

Amazing. Uh, this is kind of in the same vein. Uh, so I’m going to roll right into this next listener question. Um, what to do when you’re attracted to your friend? Do you tell them, shoot your shot or hell no dummy, don’t ruin everything and make it weird.

and make it weird? hates me because I betrayed a trust or I, I bamboozled them or they think that I manipulated them and just to wait for my moment to strike or something. If you’re worried that they’re going to have that reaction, then I think it’s probably just leave it as it is. But cause if you know your friend well, but if they’re a newer friend, You met them in a peaceful, or in like a platonic way, but you’re trying to take it to the next step.

I think it goes back to my last point. Just lead with that confident language, and the worst you’re gonna get is a no, because you already kind of trust that that relationship is staple.

Yeah.

Do you think it’s like, um, don’t,

Don’t, ruin everything. Like, I don’t think it’s necessarily a ruining event.

I

think

there’s, it’s lower stakes than that sometimes. And if it isn’t, then they’re maybe not even the best friend to begin with.

I

think it’s [00:08:00] also one of those things where, um, the, like the listener might feel some urgency around it to be like, well, like, I, I should ask now.

Or like, yeah. As though. They might disappear or something. I feel like

sometimes we can feel some urgency. Yes, or that too, right? But like, there’s nothing wrong with just letting that dynamic develop like you’re still getting, either way you’re dating or you’re friends, you’re getting to know

someone.

And it can, You know

what I mean? It can end up in any, exactly, it takes the pressure off. Um, but it’s funny because I was going to ask, this was going to be one of my questions for you guys. So, now we’re addressing it anyways, but,

I have lots of experience with that. So I, like a lot of people started as friends and then tried something else. And then it just became friends again. And a lot of people started as dates or hookups or whatever it would be. And then they just, it just became friends and it’s happened a lot on both ends of it.

And it’s, it’s fine because I think the connection was there. It’s just whether you want to add that one extra part to it, which can be huge. I’m not understating how important that part is or how risky it can be, but I think, you If the connection is there enough, trust in yourself that you’re not going to ruin everything, dummy.

You’re going to, you’re going to be fine. And it’s, it’s okay to explore and try and then be like, Oh, that didn’t really work for me. And yeah, I think that’s really common in the gay community too.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think it’s also really good practice in just like, communicating where you’re at and your intentions and how you’re feeling and like having difficult conversations.

It’s just another example of one of those moments. And the more you do it, like the easier it’ll get.

And that’s on being gay.

Yeah, Um, did, did you want to lob a question?

Um,

Were any of yours in this

Oh, you know what?

and friend

this is another friend one, but it’s not about, um, crushes. It’s the idea of like reciprocity. And, um, What do you do when you feel like you’re always reaching out or really [00:10:00] like kind of keeping a friendship afloat? What do you do? Do you keep doing that? Do you pull back entirely?

Do you do something in between where you actually kind of address it?

I can speak to that one. Cause that’s like my, that’s kind of my resolution this year is I’m deeply committed to letting people miss out on me. I’ve seen that on a video before and I was like, Oh, that resonated really well.

So,

cool. I

have, I’m usually the plan maker. I’m usually the one rallying everyone for the, the big party, the new years, the pride. I’m just kind of that force in a lot of people’s lives. And I’ve taken a step back from it because I’ve noticed that it’s, it’s not feeding me the same way that it has. And I do have some friends that I found like, yeah, I definitely put in a lot more effort.

I don’t always need a yes whenever I extend an invitation. It can be a no or maybe, but I also just, I have people in my life that I know. Oh, let’s plan another time or let’s see is kind of just, uh,

a push

off for like a, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

and other people it’s like, no, I can’t, but I am free next Wednesday. Are you?

yes, they Totally. So

I’m just I’m feeding into more of those kinds of things. And the people that I’ve found that aren’t reaching out to me to try and make those plans, I basically I’m matching energies. I guess that’s the, that’s the thing match energies and there’s nothing wrong with those people, but we actually did a whole episode on reciprocity But

it’s, it’s yeah.

Be exactly that. Be reciprocal. If you find you’re getting 5%, put in 5%, so you don’t feel bitter or jaded. You don’t feel bitter or jaded about the Disparancy? What’s the word?

A Discrepancy

between the efforts being put in.

See, I do wonder though, like, if have, have either of you actually ever addressed it and I wonder if, is there, if there’s a way to address it that doesn’t come off as like, That isn’t kind of off putting to the other person.

If you were to be like, Hey, this means like, it means I really want to get to know you more. I’m enjoying getting to know you. Um, but like, I, I do feel like I’m reaching, like, [00:12:00] how do you ask that without it coming off as like, as the other person being like, Oh, well I’m not doing enough, you know? Like, I don’t know if it’s possible.

Yeah, because like, usually in those types of circumstances, I lean towards, you know, model the behavior you want back. But if you’re carrying all of that emotional labor, there’s no incentive for the person to, to pick it

up.

it’s kind of calling them out on their poor

behavior

But

Maybe instead of calling them out, it’s like calling them in. So if they ever do reach out and even if it’s in the smallest way, be like, Oh my gosh, I love that you

gosh, I

Yes. And

so you’re

planned this. And so calling them out. Not

that you’re trading anything,

it’s, it is, it’s, it’s expressing a boundary that you have in your interpersonal relationships of what you want back.

You’re, you’re, you’re putting out the energy that you want. Yeah. They’ve seen it a million times because they’ve benefited from you making the plans. Making sure they’re free, matching the calendars, getting all that stuff done. So it’s, yeah, I’ve actually told people, I’ve been like, Hey, yeah, I want to see more of you.

Like, I’d love if, like to hear, hear

what you do.

then you sit back and you observe and you wait and it’s not manipulative or anything, but you, you just kind of, you don’t. You said your piece on it and now let it play out naturally and sometimes that’s just the way it is. But, um, back to you said, what you said about, uh, Oh, am I, am I off putting or whatever?

I mean, I get a lot of advice from the internet, but the other one was you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person. So if you’re saying, Hey, I’ve noticed there’s some diss and they’re like defensive and immediately, then they probably weren’t that close to them anyways, or they saw you as an option and it’s

Yeah. Rather than them being like, Oh my God, I never wanted you to feel that way. Like, this means this friendship means a lot to me too. Yeah.

If I said that to either of you, like, Hey, I’ve noticed I haven’t been seeing you around a lot. It’s, um, is there anything you want to talk about? Or is it just you’re busy? It would be immediately, like, No, like, there’s

Totally. It’d be reassurance. And

yeah,

yeah,

would completely have those nerves. And I wouldn’t even have those nerves asking that to either of you either, because I would know how

Yeah. There’d be no question.

 What [00:14:00] else you got for us, Lauren?

Okay,

And thank you to the listeners that did submit

some

so fun. Okay. This is a big one.

Oh.,

Okay, so this listener uses she her pronouns. I’ve always known I was queer, but I’ve been with been with my husband for 20 years and didn’t see a point in quote unquote coming out since I had a hetero passing marriage. I just turned 40 and through lots of therapy have come to the realization that I’m a lesbian and came out to my husband several weeks ago.

It was so sad and terrible because I still care about him so much. He’s a great father and husband. Neither of us have brought it up since, and I hate that it seems that he is burying his head in the sand. I thought once we spoke I’d be closer to living independently and authentically. Thank you.

Wow.

I think this is as much as just, like, wanting to share as it is a question.

well, that feeling of being

being kind of

kind of stuck because they’ve said their truth, but then it feels as though he’s not able to kind of.

Fully acknowledge it or move with it yet. And I mean, the listener should keep in mind that this is news to him, like very fresh, and she’s been thinking about it for a very long time and, and being able to process it with this little therapy and stuff. And so she’s further along than he is, and he’s going to be behind like every step of the way.

So, um, She should take, you know, take pride and solace in the fact that she knows, and she’s making the steps that she can, but it just might take a while for the rest of the people in her lives to catch up with

it.

It’s

also important to, for her to recognize her own expectations in this. Is she expecting him to ask a million questions? Is she expecting him to set her free? Is she [00:16:00] expecting him to be completely okay with it? Like she has to be honest with herself and what expectations she has. Cause it sounds like she’s frustrated with the burying the head in the sand, the silence and him processing what is she, what would be the best response that he could give you right now and manage those expectations

and maybe like, she’s got to think about what she does want as the next step and, or the next steps.

Be like, okay, well, and then, you know, set a time to say, you know, when can we talk about this again? You know, it’s, it’s on my mind. I know you’ve probably been, you know, Your mind’s probably going, you know, a mile a minute dealing with it as well. Like, when can we talk about what we can do moving forward that, and that might make her feel better too, whether it’s like using the word separated or using a word, you know, or maybe they start living a little differently, even if it’s within the same home and, um, or being able to have conversations with her kids or whatever it is, the next steps that make her feel like she’s getting closer to where she wants to be.

Um, Because no one else is going to drive this for her. He’s not going to drive it. So it’s really going to, it’s really going to have to be her figuring out those next steps and then having conversations to compromise okay, well, how quick can we go? Or what, you know, what are you comfortable with to, um, without going backwards?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and I think, yeah, uh, what she says is, you know, once we spoke, she thought she’d be closer to living independently and authentically. And I think the authentic,

authentically piece is important. It’s like we, she’s certainly already taken that step by telling him, but maybe it’s, you know, being out in her community , and talking to him about that and bringing him into what that might look like for it.

Um, and I’m going to be doing a Q& A with her individually, him individually, them as a couple if they stay together, um, because she also says independently.

Yeah, that’s

a good point

Yeah, that’s a great point about the community though. Like maybe, depending on where she lives, she can find a support group for [00:18:00] like queer or questioning women. I know that we have that in Toronto, which I went to when I was

early on in my, Yeah,

519. And so, you know, it’s just like women come who are at all stages of like just questioning or fully out and just finding people, or maybe it’s an online community that she can just have these conversations with to feel like she’s connected.

Um. But like she, she is living authentically by even speaking, even speaking her truth. Yeah, to her husband is like the biggest step she needed to make in this, is to like admitting it to herself, figuring it out herself, and then being able to speak those words to like significant other people in your lives is just like the biggest hurdle.

Yeah.

I think to, uh, uh, uh, uh, a thing with, uh, Any, not just, you know, coming out or folks who have transitioned or like entered into any new stage of your life or identity, you can feel like, Oh, I’ve said this thing. And there can be this like expectation that everything’s going to fall into line and it’s going to feel so validating and every, but it, it’s, it’s steps forward and step back.

It doesn’t, it doesn’t happen all at once.

No, and you’re getting other people’s feelings that you have to navigate and that are getting thrown at you and that can feel heavy and that can slow down your process.

But it’s all a part of the bigger process of like you getting the other side. Um, because you know, it’s a fact, it affects other people too.

exactly, she’s, she’s been in control this whole time of, I never saw a need to come out, I’m okay with this, I’m gonna plan what I’m gonna say, alright, I know I’m now ready to talk about, like, she’s been in control, and now what you’ve Say this part. Yes, it’s very difficult, but I don’t think that coming out is the hardest part.

I think it’s the living authentically and now, okay, taking the actions that are difficult, navigating the responses or on the whatever’s, there’s a lot more variables where she has been in control now. And it sounds like with the language that I heard, she’s, she wants [00:20:00] kind of imminent action and she, she wants it, she wants some changes to be

Yeah.

And that’s the hard part.

And that is the actual living authentically. Okay. Do you have the courage now to choose yourself for once, as opposed to not choosing yourself this whole time, I feel. And it, at your own, at your own speed, at your own pace, but I think you need to make the actions to make you start feeling like you’re not stuck still, because you, you’re expecting a lot more from the coming out part, but now it’s the big actions that are actually going to have the impact, I think.

Yeah.

think. Wow. Well, thanks for, that was

a

Yeah, thanks for sharing.

We’ve got some more questions, but I think this might have to be a two

Yeah, let’s do that.

Um, why don’t we take a break and then we’ll, uh, catch you next week.

 We also just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge all the, amazing people in California, , who have lost a lot and also all the beautiful people who are stepping up for their communities and are affected by the wildfires.

, we see you and, , yeah, we just hope, uh, everyone is staying safe and, uh, finding the good where they can.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that.