Queer Friendship

welcome to Dear Queer This is our first episode with a co guest host. Yeah host So we have my dear friend Nick Rovers joining us today Nick and I go back to being baby gays who probably weren’t even out in first year University Welcome to the podcast Nick

Thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here.

I, I appreciate you asking me. I’ve been excited about it all week.

we’re so pumped. Also, by the way, we’re going to need a photo of you two from University to post on Instagram alongside this. I

we got this. Alongside this. I, I was the, uh, person with the digital camera for

short. Documenting

everything? Yeah, actually, our, Nick and my origin story is, uh, around

Oh, do tell.

So, um, yeah, I was in, um, university with Lauren at Western in London and I was making friends with the people on my floor and they were kind of cliquey. Most all of them straight and I was just like, okay, I was still in the closet then I was like trying to make friends with them, but I had always known that I would see Lauren with their friend group on the other side of the wing like of the of the residents and I was like, those are the cool kids.

I want to get in with them. [00:02:00] And, um, After two weeks of trying to force my way into this group of Cleeky people on my floor. I was like, okay, not getting invited out to the cafeteria anymore I could definitely tell I was on the outs So went to lunch one day and I had been Taking pictures of our residents using a pinhole camera for art class and Lauren came up to me in the cafeteria I’m like, oh I’ve noticed you taking pictures like that.

I’m in the same course how you finding it and just chatting it up and then invited me to Party with her and her friends that night on her floor and I was just so excited. I’m like, yes, this is my chance So just yeah, I felt very much welcomed and and Warmly invited into that world that I had been looking at for two weeks because I was like this is this really my friend Situation in university.

I’m like trying so hard with these people and it’s I find it quite easy to make friends usually and I was Just struggling at that time. So it was just Yeah, I think there totally is something there with, you don’t always know

why

invisible gay force that just brings people together, I think, sometimes.

Yeah, there, there’s, I think there totally is something there , you don’t always know why you’re drawn to someone, , but Nick’s always been someone who’s just felt like family to me and someone that, like, when we’re hanging out, regardless of how my week’s been or energy or stress, , I feel just, like, relaxed and at home and, like, it’s, it’s easy.

You don’t have to think about it and it’s, I, I so appreciate those, those types of friendships.

They’re really important to me, too. I, uh, was speaking with a friend the other day how Lauren is the, the longest standing friendship that I have, that I still see regularly. I’ve known people since I was a little kid that I’m still friends with, but I don’t see, but Lauren is definitely that like longest lasting, reliable, we, and the, like the most effort put into, we see each other, um, every week I would say when we can, but even when it’s like Lauren moved away to LA [00:04:00] for.

And I went to visit down there and that was great. But even with those years apart, like when Lauren moved back, it was so easy to just like pick it up again. Like, there’s just

I love that. Yeah. I have a friend like that too. I’ve mentioned on the podcast too, before I’ve known since grade two. And, , you know, same thing. We went to high school together. Weren’t like close, like besties, but still close.

And then over the years, like she went to university. I went to university. Maybe we’d lose touch for a while, but we’d always reconnect. And now she lives like. Five minutes away, and we see each other all the time, too, and it’s one of those things where even if time goes by, like, you know, there’s fundamentally nothing has changed between you two.

Yeah.

Uh, I

think we’re, we’re getting ahead of ourselves. Maybe we should have Nick introduce

himself. Mm hmm.

you know, I know you so well, but the, uh, the listeners, , I’m sure would love to just get a little sense of

Yeah, sure. My name is Nick Rovers. I’m 36. I’m a him he and I’m a big gamer nerd. I, um, a lot of Lauren and mine and Lauren’s hangouts lately are based around board games because we’re both really into beating each other at complicated strategy games.

Um, and yeah, I worked in restaurants most of my life, had some office jobs currently in between work right now, but loving that freedom as well. Yeah.

love it. Um, since this is kind of a little bit of a different format from our, our usual episodes with, um, with our, our, our guest host today, maybe, maybe we should do a little intro of ourselves.

I’m putting you on the spot. You want, you want to, you want to do yours as well?

Oh my god, um, just who I am? Okay,

 Let’s let our listeners get to know us a little

bit.

very curious.

okay, I mean, I’m, the thing is, I feel like I have so much out there that sometimes I just assume. That there’s a certain level of knowledge where people tend to like know all these very intimate things about me, um, already.

But, I am a professor, I’m a writer, now a podcaster, I’m a mom to a nine year old, um, Juggling [00:06:00] a lot of, a lot of balls at any given time. , I literally have no idea what to

say about

to people. Isn’t that so interesting how we always, it’s like, oh, tell us about yourself. Here’s what I do.

us about

I was just like, this is

sister, mother, da, da, da,

all the roles I’ve played in my life.

Um, no, I don’t know what to say right now. I need to come back, I need to

I’ll try. Uh, yeah, I’m, , Lauren. , I use she and they pronouns. I am a dog mother to this furry couch friend, Brooklyn, here. , also live in Toronto with, uh, my fiancé, Dev. And, uh, yeah, just kind of a sporty, silly, nerdy goose.

 Let’s do this where I’m not allowed to say anything I do. Okay?

I like it. This is just an experiment. So

I think because , My rising is in Gemini. I think that um, is a good representative mix of how sometimes I’m a silly goose, especially in like TikTok videos and stuff. But then on the other hand, I’m this pretty serious emotive writer that if you just saw any one of those sides, you almost wouldn’t realize that the other side could possibly exist.

Um, I used to be a cat person until I owned a dog, and now I can never imagine having a cat again. No offense to cat lovers, but, um, and I do love cats. I love your cat. I met your cat when they were very little, and they’re adorable, but I’m so deeply a dog person to the point where I say hello to every dog I see on the sidewalk, and

often

don’t remember to make eye contact with the human attached to the dog.

What else? That’s amazing. Okay, yeah.

Maybe what do you look for in

Okay, yes, and I have, I have been thinking about this more in relation to us doing this episode. I think, so friendship is interesting because there’s some people who do stand the test of time, right? Like, uh, you two. And then there’s friends are like, there are friends that come in and out of your life.

You know, there’s like friendship breakups that [00:08:00] we have for various reasons. Maybe people break up with us or we break up with other friends for whatever reasons. But I mean, probably what’s kept friends together over the longterm is that you’re growing in similar ways. You value the same things. I think.

The people I’m drawn to as friends are the people I have really great conversations with and it’s not just like the superficial small talk, although I mean I’ll talk about reality TV all day but like, you know, like to talk about life and relationships and love and like all those things, those are my absolute favorite conversations and favorite people is when it’s about It’s about both of you as individuals, and bigger things, you know?

Um, yeah.

I think too that, yeah, you saying that is like reminding me too of like what’s always been such I think a core of, of, you know, I’ll talk about Nick and my friendship since we’re here. It’s like, it’s always feeling like, whatever is going on in my personal life, like, I can go to Nick and there’s no judgment.

There’s like, just, there truly isn’t. And it’s like, he’s going to be someone who will probably make me laugh about it, help me see it from a different way and like, yeah, love me more for it. Whatever it is.

Yeah.

For me, I’ll always go to Lauren with everything. Cause it’s just, and I say this to other people, Lauren is just such a Pro at just all aspects of life that I just feel so much in good hands with my Problems my excitements my sadnesses like Lauren will just always know what to say or

if

they don’t know what to say at

least

There’s a reassurance and just comfort in Getting it off my chest to someone that I trust so much so like it’s it’s been a really good way to make The friendship last for

There’s like a stability and a soft landing vibe.

predictability. I’ve said in the past year to my partner, just that I don’t do well with [00:10:00] unpredictable energy. So, um, so if someone is not, um,

you don’t

have to be a constant. You can have bad days, but if I have no idea how to read what’s going on with you, I will inevitably back up slowly, silently, and it’s, it’s gone.

so Yeah.

But, just, if they were to be able to say I’m over here, I’m doing my thing, I, I’ll, I need some time or some space or I’m just kind of in a weird place right now, if they can communicate that, but it’s that kind of disappearing without like that unspoken stuff that feels inconsistent. Yeah. Yeah. .

I think another thing about that, or what that reminded me of is the idea of reciprocity and how there is a kind of, you know, mutual sharing, mutual give and take but also acknowledging that maybe there are times that one of you is lower and a little less capable but that’s nothing personal if anything the other person is like stepping in to offer what do you need and checking in and that kind of like Just care and thoughtfulness is really important in

friendships too, I

thoughtfulness is really important in friendships, too, I find.

Yeah, I guess it’s maybe just a level of

Yeah, I guess it’s maybe just a level of understanding that There’s other layers of things you might be struggling with or going through, you know, specific dynamics in families or, or whatnot that just isn’t on straight people’s radar. So, like you said, there’s just this level where you don’t have to do a lot of catching up.

in the episode on loneliness and one of the questions that was asked to you was like, I’m going home from to see my family and it’s going to be [00:12:00] different because I’m just not with my queer family and it’s going to be hard.

How do I get through that? And that’s, it’s such a thing that we go through too. Like with queer people, you just have this underlying acceptance where you don’t need to. Explain certain things or defend certain things about yourself. So there’s just a like a level of ease going into them. Um, growing up, I had like in my whole elementary school to high school, I was with the same people.

Not one of them is queer, love them all. They’re great people. I’ve known them for 18 years, every class, but I was the only queer one and I wasn’t out. So truth or dare would come up or these things. veneer, hide from things and questions and all that. And, and I couldn’t fully just be myself, but I got. I got good at that, right?

And I’m still, I still make connections with them, but not the same way. So then just being, now living in downtown Toronto in the gay village, and I would say the vast majority of my recent friendships are queer

people

or really, really fierce allies. I just find it so much more effortless and so much quicker.

Like you said, you love just diving into the, like, no surface small talk. Just get right into deep chats. That’s how I am as well. And with queer people, I think we’re a lot more

I

think we are too. And it’s inherent in the fact that we’ve gone through such a deep questioning of ourselves. And it’s not something that everyone goes through if you’re just like, you know, cishet everything. And then it’s just kind of, there’s not that level of like, why, why do I wear that?

Or, you know, like, why did I feel pressure to be that way or grow my hair long or do these things? And. We’ve done that questioning at a certain point, so just naturally there’s kind of a, I think, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like there’s inherently a bit of a more critical lens that we put on things that comes out in the conversations we have.

And there’s probably just more, yeah, even if it’s different, um, family experiences when we’re kids, it’s like, um, there’s, there’s, there’s this Sharedness, I think, [00:14:00] that, that connects us. Um, someone, uh, who I had gone on a trip with, like, probably 20 years ago, um, brought, uh, some photos from that trip, and I was looking at it, and I’m, like, 15 in these photos, and everyone, all the, everyone was like, oh, yeah, it looks the same.

Look, they’re all part of the same group. And then you see me, and you’re like, hmm, that one looks a little different. And it’s like, That kid didn’t know they were queer, but it’s like, well, you know, I’m the only, you know,

baggy

oh, the, the board shorts, and the skateboard shoes, and the big t shirt, and it’s like, oh, that one’s kind of going their own way.

That’s why

I think that’s why I thought Lauren was so cool. Like back to and university, seeing like Lauren and being like, that’s the cool kid. Like Lauren had a ponytail with a cast, like she’d just broken her arm in soccer the week before school

Like the first day of

day.

Yeah. So like just cast with a slick. I was just like, this is like. Just that cool kid who is really sure of herself. And I was like, I want to get to know

That’s the thing. The cool part is probably what you’re seeing is the authenticity part where it’s just like Lauren wasn’t trying to look like everybody else and it was just doing their doing their own thing.

And because of that, you’re probably your friend group was also like, also similarly, just kind of doing your own thing and not trying to wear the Hollister stuff and fit in and do that really like, like put on an image. It was just like, this is kind of who we are.

Yeah, the friend group was very

Yeah.

the one I was trying to force my way into and it’s just not, that was never me either.

So I don’t know why I was trying so hard, but.

That’s so funny. So speaking of, even though we talked about this a while back, that invisible understanding like, you know, you two met, you didn’t know you were queer at the time.

My high school boyfriend,

Oh,

his younger sister was a couple years younger, maybe four years younger than him. Um, Loved me. Like we had this immediate bond and like, without knowing why, we just had this, [00:16:00] like, this sweet connection, and then turns out Years later, they’re queer, and like we still ran into each other over the years and reconnected and gone for coffee and chatted.

And it’s just this kind of, we’re not close by any means, but when we talk, we have these deep good conversations about family and queerness and everything. And it’s like, something in our bodies knew back then.

I mean, not that I knew of in high school.

I

mean, not that I knew of in high school. I didn’t know of anyone really at the time, although I’m sure there were some, some queers out there, but no, like, zero awareness at all. But we had this like, weird, just immediate kind of magnetic connection.

Those, I think those, um, early, uh, female or, like, same, you know, similar gendered friendships , before we’re out or stepping into our queerness. Uh, especially kind of at the time that , we were, we were, you know, growing up as, um, it’s so interesting and I think it’s kind of like a bit of a well, a well worn path of, you know, the, do I want to date my friend?

Do I want to be them? What is, why am I so drawn to this person? And it’s like, honestly, I think that’s a lot of the ways we even figure out that we are gay or queer or like. Any of that stuff is those early friendships when you’re a teenager and then in that messiness of hormones and emotions and oh my gosh what is this?

Yeah, my best friend from high school who we’re still close and we, we live not too far away in grade nine, we met and it was this immediate connection over like

I’m

really dating myself here. But, um, yeah, okay. Okay, good. Um, but we bonded and I remember having, it felt a little romantic for me. Like, so I wrote about this in my Chatelaine piece about coming out later in life and a bit about high school and, and how.

It was super confusing because it was kind of like [00:18:00] a falling, but it was falling for a friend, but then I do remember kind of briefly having a thought that I’m like, Do I, is this a crush? But then it because it was friendship for her. I just remember. But just getting that message somehow being like, Oh no, this is, these feelings I’m having are just friendship.

This is just like a really, like a friendship falling. And so I kind of had to tell her as I was writing the piece, I’m like, by the way, this is going to be out there. And she’s like, okay, no problem. But um, but at the time, like there was nothing to confirm otherwise for me. And it truly, like I was grade nine in a Catholic high school growing up, super Catholic.

And there was nothing else to like, pull me and give me an alternative path, you know?

hmm.

you know? And it doesn’t, I mean, it doesn’t always mean

And it doesn’t, I mean, it doesn’t always mean, it’s like friendship falling for friends. They can be a very, like, not necessarily romantic, but it’s like an exciting, fun thing too.

So, um, there can be something similarly kind of, I don’t know what the word I’m but

Yeah, I remember I had a And this was in the, in the, in the house Nick and I shared and I had just a female friend and we were just like in my bed hanging out and at some point like in my, I started getting a panic attack because I think I was so flooded with like confused emotions and I’m like what is, what am I feeling?

Is this romantic or is this a bigger like not necessarily about this person who’s in the bed but like is this like a bigger feeling about myself and who I am and it, yeah. It can be a lot. Yeah,

myself and who I

Oh my gosh.

can be a lot. Knowing that, but not acting on it, not because I had great family, great friends. I don’t think it would have been a problem if I, if I came out in that time, I just wasn’t ready to, as I refer to it, like, just turn the, to the next

chapter. of like, cause there’s no going back once you come out [00:20:00] kind of thing.

So I was, I, I went through university, um, In the closet and it was fine, but I just felt such acceptance in the group and It wasn’t talked about until like the end of third year a roommate asked me like oh So are you by and I was just like yes, I’m by like I just

I just agree.

with them as opposed to yeah So but like I just felt so safe and Okay, that even though I’m not ready to come out yet, I can just exist around these people and it’s not a big deal and I can just be myself.

And, um, when Lauren got that girlfriend in, in second or third year, sorry,

I snagged

Yeah, I was like, okay, like the friend group is cool with this, like as I, as we knew them to be. And I think there was just that implied chillness with the group that I felt so safe around. Um, yeah, it was a good group of

So it was like, yeah, it was a safe space to finally open, turn the chapter.

was a pretty, um, funny weekend of all of us being up, uh, at a family cottage and basically, uh, I made out with a girl. while we were out at the bar. And so simultaneously came out to my entire friend group. And it also happened to be like a lot of my co workers there. And like, I was like, Oh, uh, yep.

Didn’t plan to do that, but here we are.

As you’re coming out party, apparently.

No words needed, just

actions. Yeah. I like that.

That’s

but to Nick’s point, like, yeah, all of our friends were like, Oh, hey, so, uh. That, that was fun.

amazing. Oh my God. I love that.

They,

were on the boat ride home because we had to get to the bar on the boat. And on the boat ride home, they’re like, make it out in the back. And we’re all just like cheering them on or like

saying, the stupid phrases like wheel, wheel, wheel.

And things like that. Oh

Oh my

god.

toxic masculinity was quite

Yeah. We were all Muskoka bros on that weekend.

That is so funny.

Yeah. Uh, it’s, I’ve, I’ve got a, a listener question here. You, you throw it to him. You ready? Okay. So, this person says, Hi, I’m a [00:22:00] baby queer, and I am trying to figure out how to build a great network of queer friends for the first time. I have lots and lots of straight friends that I’ve known since I was in high school, but as I’ve come out, I’m building my queer identity.

 I am confused as to where to start building new queer friendships that make me feel fully me and seen. Any advice?

I

mean, I think it’s one of those things where there’s going to be a bit of trial and error because truly you don’t know someone until time has gone by. So even if you might feel instantly connected as friends to someone, maybe two years down the road, you’re like, oh. No, we are not the same people, you know, and we don’t value the same things or we’ve grown apart or Whatever it is so it there’s gonna be a little bit of trial and error and some people will stand the test of time and then other people Might go in and out But I guess it’s being it probably helps if you know what you do value going into it as well and if you’re you know, if you can find people who align with that and Reciprocate and all those things like the what you don’t want to be repeating bad habits that you do romantically with friends either.

Like you

don’t wanna be

over giving all the time and not get, you know, there’d be no reciprocity or you don’t want to be trying to prove yourself. Like you want to be, you want to find people that you feel comfortable being yourself around rather than trying to fit in and who just, who you feel accepted by and cared for and all

Nice.

Yeah, this is language I never would have used as a 20 year old, but like trust the energy.

Like that’s something I’ve learned just as getting older about like energy is a really real thing. So if you find yourself trying too hard, trying to carry the conversation, forcing plans, that kind of thing, like I was doing when I was a baby gay in the closet, trying to make more friends, just. Keep looking just like dating until you find the people that make you feel so like you can just relax in your chair when you’re around them and also find people that have common interests because it’s so much easier to be [00:24:00] like, I’m going to that drag show or I’m going, I’m watching this type of movie.

Do you want to come over? Like, so make sure that you’re just cause they’re queer. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be a

going to be

so keep meeting queer people that you want to be friends with, but Try to really hone in on the ones that have common interests with you. I think that’s a great place to start.

I worked in restaurants and there’s just so many queer people that worked in restaurants in Toronto when I moved here. So it was a really, there’s like a cheat code to get in there and get really close and intimate with a bunch of great people. But, um, yeah, if I knew where to meet a bunch of great people, queer people, I’d be doing

myself.

So

it’s, a learning thing that will, you’ll keep getting better at as you go.

When I, so when I moved back, , after being away for seven or eight years, um, I was really intentional about wanting to make queer friends cause I knew I already had, , you know, people here who I knew from university, high school. I grew up in this area. Um, but I was really intentional about wanting to make queer friends.

And so I found, I found a run club. I found, like, I, I sought out, , queer community. And so that, that’s been something that’s. , was really important. Even, Dev and I were very intentional. Like, okay, like, we want to foster those queer relationships and community, , in, in our lives. And so it’s something that we, we just intentionally prioritize and make sure that we’re reaching out to people.

And it’s like, I don’t know, I always feel so good when someone reaches out. So I, I just imagined someone else being on the other side of that.

appreciate

the other side of that and then they, they appreciate it too. Do you need something or like, do you want to go play bingo? Like it’s, it’s really the full spectrum of, of what is the beauty in a lot of friendships.

Um, and I want to kind of refer back to other, another point of kind of inspiration. I told, um, the story a couple episodes ago about witnessing this couple that was in love and being inspired, and that was [00:26:00] Lauren and Dev. And I’m not sure if I mentioned it in the podcast, how. Nick, you’ve also, were similarly inspired by watching their, their love and being like, that’s what I want.

And then on every, like on your dates, you’d be like, by the way, this is what I’m looking for. If you’re not on, on the same page, I’ll see you

Yeah. Since, um, I went through breakup a year and a half ago now.

And I just, I found myself in dating. I was like, Oh, if it’s not Lauren and Dev, I don’t want it. Like they were my litmus test for like, I know that that exists and that it can be found. And I was like, Oh, do I like this guy? I mean, yeah, he’s great. But I’m like, It’s not Lauren and Dev. And like, I think that’s just hard for anyone to recreate that kind of connection.

But I’m like, if it’s not, Like approaching a Lauren and Dev type relationship. I just knew to kind of call it right there. I love that.

So

Y’all are too sweet. What is

Yeah, I know, Lauren is so red right now, if you can see. Serious

I loved hearing that story when you said like, I saw them and I wanted to be near them.

I could very much, um, relate to that story of being like, oh, that’s the cool kid. I want to be near them and

Right. Love it.

I’m just going to switch this over before I turn it entirely into a

Yeah, exactly.

, I’ve got another, this is kind of a friendship and dating question. , so this person writes in and they’re saying both me and my BFF like the same

Oh dear.

 They told me first that they had a crush on them, but me and the crush have already been trading DMs.

What do I do? I

I mean, unfortunately, they didn’t say right away that they’ve been trading DMs when the friend admitted that there was a crush going on because that

sounds like the crush didn’t, like, when their friend told them they had a crush, it sounds like they didn’t also jump in and say, I also have a

Yeah, so that moment has been missed, but that was probably the ideal time because now it might feel a bit like they’ve withheld that information. Oh man, that’s a toughie.[00:28:00]

So, uh, for my mom is the sweetest, nicest, kindest person in the world.

And she told me some advice in dating when I was feeling guilty about dating multiple people at different times. And like, oh, am I leading that one on? And she’s like, Nick. You’re not in relationship with them. Dating is dating. Do what you want. And I was like, well, if that’s how she feels about it, it must be right.

So like, I think it’s up to that third person that they both have a

on

to also agree

in maybe. But I think the best thing would be for those two people to just mention that they both have a crush and kind of set them some plan of kindness for their friendship as to what it means whether one or neither of them

ends up with that person if there’s any mutual.

between them, just to be like, okay, we’re still going to be friends regardless of this. That’s, that’s the most important thing

here.

And maybe just being comfortable, like letting it play out, knowing it’s not about their friendship. It’s like that separate thing, that third thing going on.

I love I love the plan of kindness. That’s really

something

That’s something my partner and I always say, like if we’re having different energy levels, like I get that you’re, uh, you’re feeling that like a 20, like 20 percent and, but like, what’s the plan of kindness to. So that we can get back to 50 50 and making sure, like, I can, I can go 80 if you’re only 20 today.

Like, how can we, what, that’s the plan of kindness we do. So

it’s,

yeah.

I think to the um, missing, if going back to the listener question, of them maybe missing that opportunity to kind of reveal that they also had a crush. Just because they missed it that first time, I don’t, I don’t think that means they can’t go back there because they could have been like, Oh, in that moment I

I didn’t know what to do, for

Yeah. And honestly, it always comes back to me. It’s just be honest and communicate. And it’s, if you’re, if you’re truly friends, you can have those kinds of sticky conversations.

Yeah. And then maybe they make an agreement to be like, okay, well, let’s just see how it plays out or you know what, if you like, maybe I’ll back off, I’m still dating and you can see where it goes.

I think it’s also, I mean, we don’t know this information, but like, what were the DMs about? If they’re talking about how much they’re [00:30:00] so into them and they can’t wait to go on another date with them and they want to see them, then it’s like, maybe just do your friend a service being like, well, I don’t know if this person wants to date both of us or not, but it’s, we are kind of serious.

But if it’s just DMs, like, Hey, how are you? Yeah, you look cool. It’s. There’s

point, it seems like the friend who’s in the dms might be calling dibs on it in their own mind. Mm-Hmm. . So they have to be like, what are these messages about? Is it innocent or is it going someplace

Yeah, they have to catch their friend up. Yeah,

Yeah.

So this brings me to our next question. I’m going to ask each of you, and then we can get into it.

Do you stay friends with your exes? Go ahead,

I’ll start. Yes, I’m friends with all my exes to varying degrees of communication or FaceTime like seeing them and planning things with them. Yeah, I feel like unless there’s something horrible that’s

unforgivable,

time helps with everything, space and time, definitely.

And you can, like, you love them for a reason. You, you want it to be around them for a reason. And I think that just

As

soon as you get your heart right again, you can, um, You can have those times again, but I, I think of things as like Inner nucleus is like me and my soul and my heart and everything and there’s different orbits around

me.

And

and I find friendships and partners and all like X’s in that way you kind of Downgrade or upgrade?

I

I don’t know. They’re slow.

different memberships to

my nucleus. I feel like maybe some get revoked or downgraded in some ways

and

downgraded.

Yeah, exactly. Cause you only have so much time in a week and so much energy to give to other people. So you have to pick and choose carefully. So I think that I’m I’ll always stay to a minimum civil unless you’ve completely ruined me or some way.

I

think it’s, I think it’s a healthy thing. And I know a lot of people I met find that quite weird about me or find it very hard to believe or like,

Are these queer folks? Sorry to jump in, but I feel like staying friends with your exes in, in, in Queerdom, Queerland, is super common.

Yeah. It’s, [00:32:00] it’s almost inevitable because of just the, the community and the small circle.

I know that that’s a thing you’ve had as well, but, um, yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it’s, uh, it’d say it’s a mixed bag for people just because it’s a, they’re comparing their experiences to mine of like, well, I could never be friends with that ex. I’m like, okay, well, I wasn’t in that relationship. So the ones that mine have played out have usually just been

a fizzle

That leads to a parting of ways, but I still.

I think time, time is just the best for that. Like you just one day wake up and suddenly are able to be friends again with an ex who may be, it just, you just needed that time for whatever those feelings were.

to dissipate finally. And I actually, I kind of really, that’s a really sweet thing for me to be able to be friends with an ex

Like I have one in Germany that every once in a while we just exchange voice notes and chat and like catch up on each other’s lives. And, uh, another one that I just send cute cat videos to because she loves her cat.

And like, that’s just kind of our, you know, the way we communicate. And, um, but when my dog died, she dropped over, like she dropped off muffins for me and it was really sweet and gave me a little card. So I love when you can get to that point when there’s still care there. And, yeah, because like you said, Nick, you cared about that person for a reason.

There was something that drew you to them, there was something, there was a connection there. And it doesn’t mean that goes away, it just wasn’t the romantic one that, you know, you would initially both started off as. So, I actually really like when you can get to that point and let go. Let go of any of that stuff that, that was fresh around the breakup.

Yeah. I think he definitely can’t rush it, but when, um, when people are able to do that, I think it’s really beautiful and speaks to like a level of maturity and recognizing that like. There was something there between you that you both deeply cared about that doesn’t disappear just because you figure out that you’re not long-term compatible Yeah,

I, I, we always look back with kinder eyes the more

We do.

[00:34:00] So it’s, it takes work on both ends as well. Um.

as the

dumper or the dumpy

Yeah, yeah. To

be

okay with where Everything settles naturally because time will just let it settle naturally, but I pulled up this thing because my friend who had been dating I worked with both of them.

They dated for years and years after we all stopped working together, and they broke up recently, and, um, They said, uh, we both feel good. It happened months ago. It felt natural. And this is the part that stayed with me. It said, our friendship didn’t have room for a romantic element anymore.

I was like,

such a,

it was such a nice way, and I knew

that

When they said that, I’m like, okay, they’re gonna be okay. Like, after saying something like that, having that clarity on why it ended, like, It’s a friendship first and foremost with romantic element added and then it downgrades the membership down to regular friendship Which is still a beautiful place to be

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that’s really sweet, yeah.

Um, this is great because we are, Nick’s going to be joining us next week as well, when we get into our breakup episode for after Valentine’s Day.

Fun.

Yeah, leading into Valentine’s week next week, we’re, we’re, we’re keeping with friendship. Any, anything we want to share with the listeners before we wrap out of here

I mean, don’t forget about those, like, what is it, um, from Parks and Rec, it’s, uh, Galentine’s Day, right? Like, hang with your pals, it could be Palentine’s Day, right? We don’t have to put romantic love above, above

Yeah, and, I mean, friendships are, can be romantic too. There’s a lot of love in those.

I think, uh, yeah, friends are the first people we go to when we even start to think about a romantic relationship with someone else. So the friends is like the foundation of everything.

So

yeah, I love

my friends. I feel very blessed

with mine. It’s great.

Yay! We love our friends.

All right, well, thanks for joining us on this week’s episode on friendship, Nick.

pleasure. Thanks for having me.

for anyone who’s just finding us because of our super special guest [00:36:00] host, Nick, please go subscribe, share our episode.

Uh, it really helps out.

This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time.

Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Alena Papayanis I’m cutting that.